DIY Electronics Replacement Tips solicited

[SV_ATLAS]

Hello!

My wife and I are about to embark on replacing our extensive 2007 vintage Raymarine electronics package with a new system from Raymarine. We are replacing radar (analog to digital), MFDs (2 to 1), helm instruments (replacing ST60s with i70s) and new autopilot (Smartpilot to Evolution). Additionally we are installing a new AIS (Vesper XB-8000). We are not replacing the VHF (Ray218E) at this time.

We are looking for tips/tricks before we commence with the project. While we are not electricians nor have we done this before, we've read extensively and have taken on other winter projects with good success (and an intact, happy marriage!).

If you've done this before or if you're an installer who like to share we'd greatly appreciate any tips you could offer. We've found in some of our past refit projects a little experience goes a long way.

Thanks in advance!

Brian and Melissa Hill

[slug]

Originally Posted by SV_ATLAS

Hello!

My wife and I are about to embark on replacing our extensive 2007 vintage Raymarine electronics package with a new system from Raymarine. We are replacing radar (analog to digital), MFDs (2 to 1), helm instruments (replacing ST60s with i70s) and new autopilot (Smartpilot to Evolution). Additionally we are installing a new AIS (Vesper XB-8000). We are not replacing the VHF (Ray218E) at this time.

We are looking for tips/tricks before we commence with the project. While we are not electricians nor have we done this before, we've read extensively and have taken on other winter projects with good success (and an intact, happy marriage!).

If you've done this before or if you're an installer who like to share we'd greatly appreciate any tips you could offer. We've found in some of our past refit projects a little experience goes a long way.

Thanks in advance!

Brian and Melissa Hill

That stuff is mostly plug and play ...follow the directions

Most of those MFDs use foam gaskets..get a few spare gaskets

Pull your old Vhf cable..throw it away ...replace with high quality , low loss cable and new connectors. Seal exterior connectors with self amalgamating tape

UV destroys plastic cable cover insulation ....use spiral wrap to protect any exposed exterior..masthead cables..from uv burn

Use dielectric grease on exposed connectors,joints threads

When running new cables in mast ....insert an additional messenger line that will permanently live-in the mast

When masts cable penetrate the mast , use caulking to close the hole and keep the cable dry for the next ten years

If you are mounting a new thru hull..speed paddle wheel...think carefully about location for maintenance, Cleaning

Label all cables, label all junction boxes .
.Then make a cable run sketch and a junction box location scetch to include its your service documents

Use service loops at all junction boxes

Use the correct size power, dc, cable ..when in doubt go big

Install bilge lighting in critical areas so that you may inspect and service components

Radar is difficult because you must cut the cable plug off and form a new connection ,with a junction box , in the area of the mast base ...seek advice from an electronics pro before making this junction

Use a Dc to dc power supply to feed everything but the autopilot motor

Auto pilots need calibration ..rudder position ..rudder feed back..rudder stop . Think carefully when you install so as to make this calibration , service job easy

When your installation is complete use a voltmeter to verify that your rudder stock.. rudder lower bearing are free of electrical leaks from autopilot, instrument installation

[Pete7]

Your choice of instruments will mean SeatalkNG which as Slug said is plug and play. We have just done the same thing with the Chart plotter, AIS and VHF, connected to the existing Evo 100 autopilot network.

Sit down with some paper and draw out the next work and were the connections are going, in particular were the power for the network will be fed into it. There are some limits in the instructions, but I haven't come close to them.

The diagram will enable you to order just what you need, so you don't end up with a box full of leftovers.

Chances are the software for CP, AIS and Evo will need updating, there is a set order to do this, but the Raymarine instructions are straight forward if you have a CP and a spare micro SD card. Often a boot file needs installing first, then the latest software version for each item.

Are you keeping the old transducers or replacing them as well? they can be connected into a Raymarine network or replaced.

The Evo needs a rudder reference unit, regardless of what the dealers say:


http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ew-136885.html

The old stuff still has quite a bit of value. Keep all the wires and any instruction manuals, then advertise it as separate items on CF. They will sell.

Pete

[SV_ATLAS]

This is fantastic stuff so far, thank you!

We are replacing both the VHF antenna (Gam SS-2 cut to 159mhz freq for both VHF talk and AIS) and are running LMR400DB sourced from a recommended supplier via this forum. Know much care will be used with connections and done properly. We strongly considered RG213 and read both Dockhead's and ka4wja's comments re RG213/LMR400. We have found this forum to be profoundly helpful.

Great suggestion regarding the spiral wrap at the mast head, Slug. Also the permanent messenger line. Great idea.

We do not plan to replace the speed/depth/temp Airmar transducers but will if someone can provide a compelling reason to do so (I've yet to hear one).

Bilge lighting! Yes!

Regarding the autopilot, we will be using the original rudder reference unit as this works perfectly and I don't see any change by Raymarine since ours was installed.

Pete7, I learned the hard way about software installation order when I had our E120 serviced (tech updated software) and then the system wouldn't work as the E80 hadn't been updated (which was the principal MFD). A fantastic Raymarine tech here in Toronto was able to solve and rectify this for us.

We plan to keep all original components as they all function perfectly and we have all supporting documentation. It's been a years long debate whether to replace or keep but we feel 12 years is a good life (used only 5 months a year) and we we're keen to take this project on to gain knowledge of our boat's systems.

Thanks for the tips so far. Please keep them coming.

Best,

Brian

[slug]

Originally Posted by SV_ATLAS

This is fantastic stuff so far, thank you!

We are replacing both the VHF antenna (Gam SS-2 cut to 159mhz freq for both VHF talk and AIS) and are running LMR400DB sourced from a recommended supplier via this forum. Know much care will be used with connections and done properly. We strongly considered RG213 and read both Dockhead's and ka4wja's comments re RG213/LMR400. We have found this forum to be profoundly helpful.

Great suggestion regarding the spiral wrap at the mast head, Slug. Also the permanent messenger line. Great idea.

We do not plan to replace the speed/depth/temp Airmar transducers but will if someone can provide a compelling reason to do so (I've yet to hear one).

Bilge lighting! Yes!

Regarding the autopilot, we will be using the original rudder reference unit as this works perfectly and I don't see any change by Raymarine since ours was installed.

Pete7, I learned the hard way about software installation order when I had our E120 serviced (tech updated software) and then the system wouldn't work as the E80 hadn't been updated (which was the principal MFD). A fantastic Raymarine tech here in Toronto was able to solve and rectify this for us.

We plan to keep all original components as they all function perfectly and we have all supporting documentation. It's been a years long debate whether to replace or keep but we feel 12 years is a good life (used only 5 months a year) and we we're keen to take this project on to gain knowledge of our boat's systems.

Thanks for the tips so far. Please keep them coming.

Best,

Brian

Seems that electronic components last about ten years ..then something..typically the components internal power supply ..kicks the bucket

Supplying these components with filtered dc ....via a dc dc converter...seems to greatly increase service life

High class installations always use this detail

Don’t know how many miles are on your auto ram and feedback unit

I seem to get about 25 thousand miles out of this equipment

Be a good idea to carefully inspect.., motor brushes etc ..pay particular attention to the electronic rudder stops that turn off the motor when hard over

[donradcliffe]

I think that you should get a new rudder feedback unit and brushes for the autopilot ram motor, as those are limited lifetime items.

I hope you are not going to mount the MFD outside.

[slug]

And..

When we take a big yachts mast down..a mast with substantial wiring inside ..we always perform a Megger test Of the cables

Simple, cheap and the test verifies the condition of the cabling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megohmmeter

If you have a competent electrical guy around pay him to perform the test

[SV_ATLAS]

Originally Posted by slug

And..

When we take a big yachts mast down..a mast with substantial wiring inside ..we always perform a Megger test Of the cables

Simple, cheap and the test verifies the condition of the cabling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megohmmeter

If you have a competent electrical guy around pay him to perform the test

Will do. Thanks.

[SV_ATLAS]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I think that you should get a new rudder feedback unit and brushes for the autopilot ram motor, as those are limited lifetime items.

I hope you are not going to mount the MFD outside.

Thanks Don. The linear drive unit (ram and motor) are by LS and probably have no more than 3k miles on it. I’ll be sure to check the motor brushes.

We will be installing the MFD in the same Navpod as our existing E120. This is located in our covered (fabric Bimini) cockpit and below the cockpit table.

[SV_ATLAS]

Originally Posted by slug

Seems that electronic components last about ten years ..then something..typically the components internal power supply ..kicks the bucket

Supplying these components with filtered dc ....via a dc dc converter...seems to greatly increase service life

High class installations always use this detail

Don’t know how many miles are on your auto ram and feedback unit

I seem to get about 25 thousand miles out of this equipment

Be a good idea to carefully inspect.., motor brushes etc ..pay particular attention to the electronic rudder stops that turn off the motor when hard over

I will add filtered dc to tomorrow’s reading list. Thank you.

[ka4wja]

Brian and Melissa,



With one exception (a DC-DC converter is unnecessary, as almost all modern marine electronics these days are spec'd to run from 10vdc thru 32vdc....and if you're installing an SSB radio, all maritime HF radios [by law/regulation] must work within their spec from approx 11.5vdc thru 15.6vdc....and a battery is as pure DC power as you can get....and if you've got ripple from solar charger, etc. the batteries should compensate for it, if not, fix that issue....but a DC-DC converter just adds to RFI and ripple, not a good idea), I agree with everything that slug and Pete have mentioned....


And, with one exception (your choice of LMR400db cable vs. RG-213....or even versus LMR-400uf....do realize that while 400db does have a waterproofing compound in and around the foil/braid, keeping water from wicking thru should the outer jacket be cut, this does not do much to protect moisture from wicking throughout the cable should it enter from a connector, etc., and do realize that the 400db cable has a solid copper-clad aluminum center conductor, something I'd not recommend on-board....you'd only be giving up a bit less than 1db if going to RG-213, but if you feel you must squeeze out the last 1/2db in cable loss, and you could use LMR-400uf, and look for aftermarket/non-Times UHF/PL-259 CRIMP-ON connectors), I agree with your plan...


But, whatever coax cable you choose, please note that proper install of the connectors is more important!! And, unless you're experienced with coaxial cable connector installation, please either buy professionally assembled cables or buy/install crimp-on connectors, 'cuz you don't want to try soldering....(non-solder / crimp-on's are an absolute if using any "low-loss" cable, such as an LMR cable!!)


Hope this helps...



fair winds...


John



EDIT....
Here are the specs on the LMR cables...


LMR-400uf
https://www.timesmicrowave.com/DataS...LMR-400-UF.pdf




LMR-400db
https://www.timesmicrowave.com/DataS...ts/LMR-400.pdf


But, still think you're better off with Belden or Davis RG-213....




P.S. There is no need to "filter" DC....unless you're charging a battery with a "dirty" charger, the marketing of "filtered DC" is....well, it's like snake oil...

[Pete7]

Brian and Melissa,

Raymarine do some brackets to change from an old CP to one of their new CPs, because the cut out will be different. Sadly they didn't do a C80 to Element 9 when I was looking. Wondering what to do with my Navpod, I noticed a smart white chopping board in the local supermarket. The stuff is pretty indestructible, it is after all a chopping board and made a nice blanking plate to add the new CP to the navpod. I used security bolts to attach it.

Raymarine CPs have a NMEA2000 connection, not SeatalkNG. So it's the one piece of kit on your list you need an adapter cable for. NMEA2000 to SeatalkNG cable about $30, just make sure you get the right male and female ends. The dealer will know.

The Raymarine 218 will only take NMEA 0183 so you will need a RM converter if you want the VHF to have GPS position for DCS. Since the converter is £100 in the UK, I swopped out our our Ray 54 for a refurbished Ray50. Actually other than the box was a bit scruffy I don't think it has ever been used. The later RM VHFs connect directly to SeatalkNG and appear on the network displayed on the CP. This enabled me to update the Ray50 software from the CP, again following the instructions all very straight forward. With AIS and GPS being supplied to the VHF from the network I chose a simple VHF because I wanted a clear VHF screen not cluttered with other stuff. The idea of viewing AIS on a 2" VHF screen is just barking in my opinion, I just want a VHF to be a VHF.

The calculation for the number of items you can have on the network is called LEN by Raymarine, worth reading up on it. However, for me its wasn't a problem particularly as the power supply is in the middle of the network backbone cables.

[duckpond49]

I differ on Slug's radar connection comment.
Older Raymarine radar units used purpose-built cables to the masthead unit. Current technology is just + & – DC and a CAT5 cable, of which only 2 of the 4 pairs are used. The CAT5 plug and power connections are inside the masthead housing. So just redoing the connector is not the SOP. The good news is the newer cable is about 30% smaller diameter.

[LeeV]

I hope I’m not high jacking but adding to this thread after reading the piece on older/newer brackets. What if an “upgrade” was done functionally well, but sloppy? The previous owner used starboard to mount a new 12” Axiom MFD but cut the opening too large, so moisture can get in; thankfully the helm is enclosed.

My question is what would be a good 3 month temp fix to cover the opening that I can apply in a few minutes which is all I’ll have on the boat till I fly back down to bring her home in 3 months?

I’ve copied all the great tips above; great thread!

[MJH]

Originally Posted by SV_ATLAS

Hello!

My wife and I are about to embark on replacing our extensive 2007 vintage Raymarine electronics package with a new system from Raymarine. We are replacing radar (analog to digital), MFDs (2 to 1), helm instruments (replacing ST60s with i70s) and new autopilot (Smartpilot to Evolution). Additionally we are installing a new AIS (Vesper XB-8000). We are not replacing the VHF (Ray218E) at this time.

We are looking for tips/tricks before we commence with the project. While we are not electricians nor have we done this before, we've read extensively and have taken on other winter projects with good success (and an intact, happy marriage!).

If you've done this before or if you're an installer who like to share we'd greatly appreciate any tips you could offer. We've found in some of our past refit projects a little experience goes a long way.

Thanks in advance!

Brian and Melissa Hill

I'm sure the electronics industry is looking forward to your project purchase. But what is wrong with what you currently have onboard and are familiar with?

Refit electronics will be outdated next year.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH