Cannot read Raymarine ST70 wind transducer pod data from B&G MFD

[mbartosch]

I am having a hard time connecting a Raymarine ST70 Wind Transducer Pod (E22108) to my NMEA 2000 network and would appreciate any tips how to resolve this. I have searched the forum but did not find anything that helped me.

We bought our boat with an existing Raymarine ST70 (SeatalkNG) installation which is basically (still) working fine.

Recently we added a B&G Zeus2 MFD and a SimRad 4G Radar. The NMEA 2000 network is connected to the Seatalk NG network. The resulting joined bus is terminated properly at both ends. All systems are working fine, both the old ST70 devices and the new B&G/Simrad equipment.

The B&G Zeus2 MFD can read most of the existing Seatalk NG sensors (speed, depth, compass), but it does not seem to be possible to access the wind sensor, so we cannot use the fancy sail & steer functions of the Zeus2.

When I try to add data sources for true wind speed or direction the MFD does not list any source devices for this information.

Is there anything I can do to resolve this? I have repeatedly scanned the NMEA2k bus but was unable to find the device.
Maybe I could replace the Transducer Pod with a different device - but I'd really need one that is also compatible with the ST70 devices.

[travellerw]

Can you provide some more details about the backbone and what devices are on it. I'm thinking this is a backbone issue somewhere but need more details to try and map it out.

[smac999]

I don't think the zeus will take true wind from the 70. it will probably take apparent wind from the 70 and cacl true itself.


so in data sources you'd probably have the st70 as apparent wind and zeus for true.




in the n2k device list on the zeus does everything show up?

[mbartosch]

Hmm, thanks for pointing this out. I thought I had double-checked everything in the device list, but come to think of this, I am not totally sure if I checked if there is actually a source found for apparent wind (which is obviously what is measured by the ST70). True wind is calculated, of course, and will be absent if no apparent source is there.

I am currently away from the boat, will be there not before end of October. I will have a look, check for apparent wind sources. Will follow up in a couple of weeks if this was the reason.

Thanks for asking the right question, this helped!

[Rusty007]

Ray Marine's SeaTalkNG is a combination of NMEA0183 and NMEA2000 messages. Hence the 6th pin on the cables. A lot of their gear still runs the 0183 protocol and the ST70 is most likely one of those. Connecting it to the N2K network will not work.

If you get a Serial/Video cable for your B&G you could wire up the 0183 direct to your B&G. Best bet is to cut a STng cable and find out what cables need to connect to the B&G serial cable.

[sailjumanji]

Make sure you have the wind device turned on and powered up before starting the Zeus. This is only important the first time. Speaking from experience. I have ST60 wind and Zeus2 working properly thru sea talk to sea talk ng converter.

[mbartosch]

Interesting information about the Seatalk NG being Hybrid of NMEA 2k and 0183.

I am currently on the boat (will leave Monday, so can check things out till then).

Fact: the E22108 does NOT appear in the device list, so no data sources on wind at all.

Opened the box, seems to confirm the NMEA 0183 hint. (Will need to verify this, unfortunately I do not have too much spare time, as I am currently busy with installation of a Balmar high power alternator and solar panel wiring)
Will need to research on the idea of splicing in a Seatalk NG cable.
Maybe I need a NMEA 0183 to 2k converter?



Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[mbartosch]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Make sure you have the wind device turned on and powered up before starting the Zeus. This is only important the first time. Speaking from experience. I have ST60 wind and Zeus2 working properly thru sea talk to sea talk ng converter.

Hmm, interesting. Do you have the 22108 as well? A rescan of my Zeus does not show the 22108, unfortunately.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by mbartosch

Interesting information about the Seatalk NG being Hybrid of NMEA 2k and 0183.

I am currently on the boat (will leave Monday, so can check things out till then).

Fact: the E22108 does NOT appear in the device list, so no data sources on wind at all.

Opened the box, seems to confirm the NMEA 0183 hint. (Will need to verify this, unfortunately I do not have too much spare time, as I am currently busy with installation of a Balmar high power alternator and solar panel wiring)
Will need to research on the idea of splicing in a Seatalk NG cable.
Maybe I need a NMEA 0183 to 2k converter?



Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Sorry.. That is completely erroneous information.. Seatalk NG is %100 NMEA 2000, and certified by the NMEA 2000 body. They simply choose to use proprietary cabling. Don't beleive me, here is Raymarine's own words.
SeaTalkNG Networking Cables | Raymarine

If you want to feed Seatalk NG into an NMEA 2000 network, you will need and adapter. West Marine carries exactly what you need.
RAYMARINE SeaTalk NG to DeviceNet (NMEA2000) Adapter Cable, Male | West Marine

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by mbartosch

Hmm, interesting. Do you have the 22108 as well? A rescan of my Zeus does not show the 22108, unfortunately.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

No I have an older version wind. I have a Zeus2 MFD, Seatalk 60 plus wind, Seatalk 60 depth/speed, and a Raymarine S1 autopilot. All of the ST60 instruments and the S1 autopilot feed into a Seatalk to Seatalk NG converter that is an extension of the backbone of the N2K system. It needs to be hooked up as a backbone extension, and not a spur. (I did it that way incorrectly first.) That said, if your 22108 wind is Seatalk NG, I would think it is just hooked up with a spur cable to one of the T's in your N2K backbone.

The first time I turned on my Zeus2 - after I got the converter hooked up correctly - I did not see the other devices. And I know they were working, but the devices did not show up on Zeus2. I think when the Zeus came on they other devices were not powered up, and it did not see them. I did a factory reset on the Zeus which allowed me to go thru the full first time startup again, but this time made sure that all other instruments were turned on first. It appears that when Zeus came on it looked for the other instruments, found them all, and showed them as devices on the list. Everything has worked fine since, whether or not Zeus 2 is powered up before or after the others.

[mbartosch]

Checked it again to be sure.
The 22108 is connected to the "old" Seatalk NG part of the network, and the Raymarine ST70 can read the wind transducer output of the 22108 just fine.
The "new" part is an extension of the bus, attached at one end of the existing Seatalk NG network. The B&G Zeus can see all devices from the old Seatalk NG, with the sole exception of this single device.
Following your advice, do I understand it correctly that you recommend to remove it from the Seatalk side and attach to the "new" NMEA2000 side?
Logically no difference but hopefully electrically "different" enough to be recognized on both bus parts.
Sounds worth a try. Need to buy cable and retry on next visit then (possibly in December )


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[sailjumanji]

Is the wind hooked up as a spur or a backbone of the N2K network? I don't understand your reference to "bus". Since the wind is Seatalk NG - which is the same as N2K - it should be on the N2K network via a spur. Hooking up as a backbone is different, and will not work.

[Rusty007]

Originally Posted by travellerw

Sorry.. That is completely erroneous information.. Seatalk NG is %100 NMEA 2000, and certified by the NMEA 2000 body. They simply choose to use proprietary cabling. Don't beleive me, here is Raymarine's own words.
SeaTalkNG Networking Cables | Raymarine

If you want to feed Seatalk NG into an NMEA 2000 network, you will need and adapter. West Marine carries exactly what you need.
RAYMARINE SeaTalk NG to DeviceNet (NMEA2000) Adapter Cable, Male | West Marine

On that website it states that it has a 6th pin to enable backwards compatibility. I did not say that the N2K side was not compliant just that some devices will send 0183 over the 6th pin. I can be hard to tell sometimes if the devices are talking in 0183 or N2K. If it is all Ray Marine gear there is no problem. I you use a SeaTalkNG to N2K converter cable you lose the 6th pin and all the 0183 data.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by Rusty007

On that website it states that it has a 6th pin to enable backwards compatibility. I did not say that the N2K side was not compliant just that some devices will send 0183 over the 6th pin. I can be hard to tell sometimes if the devices are talking in 0183 or N2K. If it is all Ray Marine gear there is no problem. I you use a SeaTalkNG to N2K converter cable you lose the 6th pin and all the 0183 data.

Unless you are using the backbone kit with an adapter cable to NMEA 200 (must be part of the NMEA 2000 trunk). Then the backbone kit will transcribe all the NMEA 0183 data onto the NMEA 2000 (and Seatalk NG) backbones.

[Rusty007]

After a bit more research I found that Seatalk1 and NMEA0183 are very different. The backwards compatibility in SeaTalkNg is for SeaTalk1.