Gender roles in sailing and cruising

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by cyan

This is not my experience. I'm with a woman who does opt out of certain tasks but who also admires those who opt in IF THEY WANT TO. This might be a different category, though. She would shake her head in disgust at that loud mouth yacht club woman. She would also choose to spend extra time in the galley perfecting the art of the perfect meal after bringing the teak back to life on deck. Respect for roles and choices of others is an underlying theme for us, no matter whether those choices look too traditional or too modern to anyone else.

100% agree.

Its to easy to throw the "equality gender " card around because some want to view the world differently from the in "vogue liberal progressive" movement.

My partner also very much enjoys perfecting her cooking skills, I dislike cooking, does this make for a relationship of inequality that is male centric dominated because the womans in the kitchen?

Equality isnt determined by roles individuals choose.

[SailnBlue]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

This phrase always make me seriously wonder about the world. And grunt. I always grunt just reassure myself I can still play with the big boys.

The virtue signaling piety posing is par for the course. There are good women sailors to be sure. Of course, both sexes are the same. In fact, just a few months ago we were anchored in a remote spot at night and there were some sounds up on deck. My girlfriend said, " Don't worry about a thing, honey. Just you stay put while I go topside and check it out..."

[gamayun]

Focus, gentlemen, if you can. I am not saying your woman needs to be the captain, or the person in charge, or the one on top in your relational hierarchy. I am asking does she have the skills to run the boat without you telling her what to do? It's a safety thing. It's a confidence thing. It's a power thing. And I frankly could care less about how you parse the dirty dishes.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I am asking does she have the skills to run the boat without you telling her what to do? It's a safety thing. It's a confidence thing. It's a power thing. And I frankly could care less about how you parse the dirty dishes.

Fixed it for you.

[daletournier]

It was answered several times, some ladies don't want to, they actually prefer to be involved in other areas of the cruising life, you see it differently, that's ok, but not everyone needs to conform to one persons view of the way the world should be.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Oh, clarification. I didn't mean solo!! I meant she takes the boat with her friends as crew. I ask this because if it's only the two of you, and the guy part of the equation becomes incapacitated, could she handle the boat? Could she get it back around to pick you up in a MOB situation? Which actually is single-handing if you think about it.

Yes, of course she can … just as well (or as poorly ) as I. We both solo sail all the time. Our boat is not hard to manage out on the briny, but she’s a beast when coming into a dock.

Originally Posted by gamayun

I was recently teaching some "advanced" women sailors and many of them referred to their husband's boat. They want to learn how to be better sailors and yet they don't see their boat as their own. And they were, to a woman, shocked by the thought of taking the boat out without their partners. It's my opinion that they're not better sailors because they don't actually ever take charge despite what many men say.

I’m not surprised. Like I said, I think sexism is still quite rampant in the sailing/cruising world. There’s lots of reasons for it, and I don’t think it’s all due to the ‘old boys’ purposely keeping women down. But there is definitely a culture and mores that shape both genders.

My partner, who is fully engaged with our boat and boat work, constantly gets positive approval from the ‘old boys’. They are impressed that she does what she does, and I constantly get reminded how lucky I am. Very few of their spouses do what my Ann does, and they claim that they wish their spouses did.

The thing is, both she (and I) fully expect each of us to pull our own weight. There’s nothing special about Ann changing the oil, fixing the stuffing box or climbing the mast. But in the eyes of most men in the sailing/cruising world, this translates into her being extraordinary, and me being very lucky.

On the flip side, when I’m doing the laundry, acting as deck hand while she helms the boat in, or cooking a meal, I’ll get razzed by the same ‘old boys.’ It’s good natured ribbing, but it is there. Sexism hits both of us, in different ways.

[OS2Dude]

Even if the role of captain changes on a schedule, there is still only ONE captain at a time. I don't think the idea of 'co-captains' works (especially in an emergency), someone has to be able to have the final authority (and responsibility). Gender/Age should not have anything to do with it. The person best able to fulfil the duty should have it if they are willing to accept it.

As for the paper giving the wife authority to operate the boat, our boat is in both our names but the title has room for one and it shows mine. Such a paper would make it easier to handle situations than trying to explain the lack of room for a second name on the title.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by gamayun

'Her crew' must be financially willing to pay for damages...? That tells me all I need to know.

That's what I was thinking... Then I realized it probably is his boat, not theirs. And there is a percentage of the population that believe financial loss should be spread around... I had a friend with a ski boat who used to take us out occasionally who full expected we would pay for a lost ski that happened when he was driving the boat. We did but I thought it was a wierd expectation. Different strokes...

But where this comment became an example of radical feminism, I have no idea. It's funny, because I almost completely agree with this guy's conclusions (each to his own) — just not how he got there. And totally find his name calling offensive...

[cyan]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Focus, gentlemen, if you can. I am not saying your woman needs to be the captain, or the person in charge, or the one on top in your relational hierarchy. I am asking does she have the skills to run the boat without you telling her what to do? It's a safety thing. It's a confidence thing. It's a power thing. And I frankly could care less about how you parse the dirty dishes.

Dude.
Focus a little yourself.
The discussion moved beyond it already.
7 people answered your question. 6 said yes, and the one that said no involved medical reasons. An eighth abstained. Perhaps no.

When you keep asking the same question, you appear to be making a statement instead. You imply that the female part of a couple crew has inadequate skills and experience to handle the boat because the male ogre fails to let/encourage her to get these skills.

In reality, cruising couples who venture far enough to have overnight passages NATURALLY share the watches and the skills/experience comes equally because even ogres have to sleep.

[minou]

All men KNOW they are the captain of their boats....
BUT
We ALL know that we still work through and report to the ADMIRAL [emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]

Anyone says any different they are delusional and prefer discord over harmony.

[ShellBack89]

Originally Posted by minou

All men KNOW they are the captain of their boats....
BUT
We ALL know that we still work through and report to the ADMIRAL [emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]

Anyone says any different they are delusional and prefer discord over harmony.

True that!

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by minou

All men KNOW they are the captain of their boats....
BUT
We ALL know that we still work through and report to the ADMIRAL [emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]

Anyone says any different they are delusional and prefer discord over harmony.

The problem is that some people say stuff like this tongue-in-cheek, and some people say it with complete seriousness. There's a lot of subtext in the whole Admiral thing and not all of it pleasant. Not to say we aren't all entitled to choose our own route to power and a lot of men prefer the the power-behind-the-throne thing. It's just that it is often the only route open for women...and that's more than a little sad.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

That's what I was thinking... Then I realized it probably is his boat, not theirs. And there is a percentage of the population that believe financial loss should be spread around... I had a friend with a ski boat who used to take us out occasionally who full expected we would pay for a lost ski that happened when he was driving the boat. We did but I thought it was a wierd expectation. Different strokes...

But where this comment became an example of radical feminism, I have no idea. It's funny, because I almost completely agree with this guy's conclusions (each to his own) — just not how he got there. And totally find his name calling offensive...

The typical radical feminist is one who irrationally jumps to conclusions based on the position of them being in constant "victim status". No amount of explanations given will satisfy the victim position. The victim status gives them power to say and do anything and justify it at whatever cost. Accusations are their primary weapon and will be levied at anytime there is a precieved injustice. The accusation does not have to be true. Such comments as "that tells me all I need to know" is a typical radical feminist calling card, very irrational and incomplete. After the accusation is levied and dis proven no amount of responsibility will be accounted because after all, their victims. Gynocentric dominance is their only focus. Equality is not desired but instead dominance. So Macblase, based on your comments and your Faux offense I can only imagine your either very young or you live in very close proximity to a radical feminist who is monitoring you very closely. Either way, I find your offense entertaining. For your health, stop eating soy.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

The typical radical feminist is one who irrationally jumps to conclusions based on the position of them being in constant "victim status". No amount of explanations given will satisfy the victim position. The victim status gives them power to say and do anything and justify it at whatever cost. Accusations are their primary weapon and will be levied at anytime there is a precieved injustice. The accusation does not have to be true. Such comments as "that tells me all I need to know" is a typical radical feminist calling card, very irrational and incomplete. After the accusation is levied and dis proven no amount of responsibility will be accounted because after all, their victims. Gynocentric dominance is their only focus. Equality is not desired but instead dominance. So Macblase, based on your comments and your Faux offense I can only imagine your either very young or you live in very close proximity to a radical feminist who is monitoring you very closely. Either way, I find your offense entertaining. For your health, stop eating soy.

Jeez dude, stop with the ad hominum attacks. I can grab my balls with the best of them, think meat is all I need for a diet, and as am likely to resort to mindless violence as I am to buying the guy another beer. In the appropriate company...

I'm just not blind. Life ain't fair and I, by dint of quirk of fate, sit at the top of the heap. Trust me, I'm not eager to give up my privilege but that shouldn't mean having to keep anyone else down. And I gave up on feminism years ago. It's past it's best before date and heading nowhere. I prefer to think of myself as a people-ist. And from the sounds of so do you...just stop being so sensitive.

And I'll buy you a beer if I ever make far enough north. But not a lite beer

[atmartin]

Get over the "soy feminizes men" nonsense. The data on that is scant at best. Somehow Asian men have managed to procreate and maintain male-dominated societies, despite thousands of years of soy consumption. Do you figure the CIA is seeding the clouds with mind-control chemicals, too?

If you're so worried about your hormone levels: stop drinking beer. Alcohol and Hops are certainly more harmful to male hormones than soy. Oh, and don't work with epoxy and other plastics. BPAs and all that.

My mom is going through a health/workout phase and admonished me for drinking soy milk because "it will give you boobs". I laughed and told her, "Ok, but so will all the beer I drink, the chemicals I inhale at work and the boat I live in (epoxy tanks)". If it ain't one thing, it's the other.