Edward William Marine Services Insurance - Anyone Use?

[osirissail]

Notice the words/phrase " therefore the problem is not necessarily ours." They are trying to get you to think that they are not liable without baldface lying. If the transfer was done by paper check then their liability stops when you or your bank endorses the deposit and the funds actually show up which can be a week or more (bad checks take several days or more to show up). If the funds were sent electronically and received by the bank you specified in correspondence to them, then they are have done their part.
- - Basically the onus is on you to prove that you did not receive the funds within a reasonable period of time.
- - Their disbursing bank will remove (block) the funds immediately upon the transmittal of a wire transfer. But will not remove the funds for a check until they receive communications from the check clearing house that the funds are transferred.
- - Wire transfers can be a problem if the long list of numbers and codes is not completely accurate and nobody made a mistake in copying the data. It can takes weeks to straighten out a wire transfer gone wrong. Checks are problematical as the international mailing takes weeks to months - - and with a paper check from an insurance or other legal entity - - read the back of the check very carefully, you might just see a statement that absolves the payer of the check from all future liability for the claim, legitimate or otherwise after you sign / endorse the check for deposit.

[pdbms]

Originally Posted by isy43

Hi all whilst researching insurance for what might be my next yacht i recently came across an add in a recent " Coastal Passage" magazine ( no.37 ) 2009 , a broker here in Australia advertising insurance for ferro cement yachts , D & G Marine ,ph.0438563164, somewhere in New South Wales,,, as yet Ive only heard from others that that the premium is 2% for comprehensive insurance + Ive been told by some marina staff comprehensive insurance is the only insurance they'll accept for your entry into a marina berth. Regards Isabell

I have just spoken to Derick at D&G in Victoria, Australia. He is the Australian Agent for Edward William. He does not know of any other agency that will provide an insurance certificate for a ferro boat.

[Paul R Hughes]

Edward William Marine Services SL Claim to be resisted in Spain but to date has not shown any proof of this. My solicitor has sent notice of this to the Financial Services Authority UK

[osirissail]

If you do your web search correctly you will find a Spanish government website that indicates that EW Marine Services is prohibited from doing business in Spain. They have the similar type listing in Nigeria and likewise it has never slowed anybody down. And as in all "legal" situations the word "in" is different from the word "from."
- - F.C. hulls are difficult to insure with mainline insurance companies at reasonable rates especially since rates are also dependent upon the market value of the vessel. Normally, you cannot insure a boat and expect to collect more than the fair market value which in the case of F.C. boats is already very low. It is not uncommon for owners of older vessels to invest a lot more money than the boat is "worth" over the years upgrading and improving the boat, but normally the insurance will not write coverage for more than the fair market value of that make/model/age of boat. All that extra money you invested will simply sometimes make the boat sell quicker but not change the price.
- - Liability-only polices, although tied to the processes of determining comprehensive coverage, are less expensive and are really all that marina/boatyards are interested in seeing. Payment for damage you and/or your boat does to other vessels and the marina is what they are looking for. Damage to your own boat is your problem.

[svlazybones]

I have been using Northern Reef for three years and have been very satisfied with the service, but made no claims. You mentioned that you are aware of claims having been paid out. I am trying to get one or two contacts for boats that have made claims and they have been paid. Can you be more specific on what claims you heard were paid out or does anyone have any experience with paid claims by Northern Reef?

I only bring this up now as a friend recently looked into Northern Reef and found a lot of negative feed back on them, so now I am concerned and trying to get some specific info that justify my staying with Northern Reef or switching.

Your help with specifics is appreciated.

[Mustang Sally]

We were insured with them for 2 years. Last summer I spent 3 months closely looking at Northern Reef and Edward William. My conclusion is it's a scam.

[osirissail]

But sometimes you can use such an operation to your benefit. Like with a ferro-cement boat that you cannot get insured with a legitimate carrier - and - you need coverage to get into marinas/boatyards, etc. you can avoid having to actually "forge" a document and instead use these type operation's low rates to accomplish your goal.

[svlazybones]

Originally Posted by Mustang Sally

We were insured with them for 2 years. Last summer I spent 3 months closely looking at Northern Reef and Edward William. My conclusion is it's a scam.

I am continuing to dig into this. The only thing that matters are specifics. Did boats file claims and get paid or not. I have been given now at least one boat that has recently been lost and supposedly was paid. Once I have real data I will post it. Until now I have yet to hear or see any data but inferences. So if ayone has real data about not getting paid on a claim that has been filed other than the single post for SSCA it would be appreciated. Hopefully I get some real data before we are in an area of concern for our boat. Right now, the risk is minimal.

[osirissail]

If you are really researching this outfit, you will find enough information to reach a reasonable conclusion as to their real nature and record. With rare exception few if any posters will come out and make absolute or "specific" claims on a public forum. We are in fact, traceable and getting harassed legally or spuriously by the principals or minions of such an operation is not pleasant or something anyone really seeks.
- - Insurance is a bet between you and the carrier that on your part you are betting that you will have a lose and on their part that you will not. Not until you actually have a major lose will you have a specific experience with their ability and intent to make good on their half of the bet.
- - With rare exceptions the costs of carrying insurance for a specific boat/year/model and operating locality will vary little between major carriers. When one is significantly less costly than the other then the old axiom of "too good to be true" kicks in.

[meridian@]

We were insured with Edward William Marine Services, underwritten by Northern Reef in 2007. For AUD 275,000 cover we paid AUD 2000, which was less than what we had paid for Australian coastal cruising.

In August 2007 we hit a reef in the Louisiades, PNG. We managed to drag the boat over the reef (steel!) and sail back to Cairns, Australia. We lodged our claim and were assigned a loss assessor. He sent a surveyor up from Brisbane to inspect the damage and advise the potential repairers what was and was not allowed.

Only one company quoted to do the repair, this was accepted by the surveyor and loss assessor. THe quote was AUD 90,000. Then we got a shock: the loss assessor said ours was an indemnity policy and that we would have to pay first and get reimbursed later. Nowhere could we see that the policy was indemnity.

After we paid for 50% of the repairs, we got 2/3 back as EW had sold part of the policy to another company. After we paid the final invoice we had to wait about 2 months before we got paid.

We didn't use EW in 2008 because we were in Australian waters. When we were leaving Darwin in the Indonesia Rally, we re-insured with EW. This time the premium was over AUD5000 for AUD275000 cover

Now 12 months later I got the renewal notice, again for AUD 5000. I also got a quote from another company which is fully comprehensive for AUD 4500. When I told EW that I had a better quote, they dropped the premium to AUD 4000.

I am currently considering another company, but it seems like they are also indemnity type, more information required.

So, Yes, Edward WIlliam Marine Services did pay out on our claim.

paulr
"Meridian of Sydney"

[svrodeorm]

@meridian

Thanks a lot for very interesting info. I am currently in the process to decide if- and with whom- to insure the boat. We are currently going with only liability.

I have been in touch with EW after having them recommended by fellow cruisers, but I did google them and found this thread and e couple others to cool me off.

Indmnity policy is a new ball game to me.... never ever heard of such a thing. So unless you're loaded with cash you would have to borrow money for repairs and then- hopefully- be reimbursed, right?

Not too tempting...

[Mustang Sally]

We used Edward William 2 years ago. After 4 months of investigation last summer we determined it was a fraud and switched to a different insurer.

[svrodeorm]

if that's the truth, why would they bother to pay anything at all?

[Mustang Sally]

A true fraud business operates at a minimum level. In other words to keep the fraud going they make a couple of pay outs so those people keep telling others.

[osirissail]

Remember from the various financial news over the last few years there have been some seriously "mega-buck" pyramid and other schemes that have bilked billions from people all over the world. It all goes great until the operation gets too big to sustain just like chain-letters.