Buying in the Med - Experiences ?

[dmgf]

Has anyone had any recent experiences buying in the Med. eg Croatia, Italy, Greece, Turkey. Just wondering how negotiable asking prices are? Planning to go there early 2011 and hoping to buy in the 40ft-46ft mono range. Any comments welcome. thanks.

[swagman]

Hi,
We've only just purchased another boat in the EU.
The vendors eventually agreed 18% off its original listed price.
We negotiated a further 8%.
And then got some remedial work completed saving another 1.5%.
Obviously each situation will depend on the price orginally asked, how good a value that may be, and of course how much you want the boat!
The trick (as in any buying) is to always remember there IS another one round the corner....
Enjoy
JOHN

[hoppy]

I'm in he process of buying a boat in Greece, in fact the surveyor should be on the boat now

I found the Greek brokers to somewhere between shifty and creative. When dealing with them, double or triple check the facts

An example of Greek creativity, I have both an Aussie & Swedish passport and live in Sweden and the Greek broker suggested I buy as an Aussie and therefore could buy vat free and keep it in Greece. This was slightly overlooking the fact that as a Swedish resident I cannot do that. This of course will not be an issue for you.

I ended up finding a privately sold British boat and have arranged a UK broker to do the deal for me.

Prices are negotiable, how much depends on the sellers need to sell and how optimistic the brokers pricing is. and of course how good you are at it.

From what I have seen, Croatia seems to have the lowest prices. From what I understand that part of this low pricing is related to the manufacturers not in including CE conformity as it is not needed. The lack of CE makes it a hassle for EU buyers but should not matter if you are putting on an Aussie flag and sailing home.

[dmgf]

Thanks Swagman and Hoppy. Your imput and comments are much appreciated. We are trying to build our knowledge again as we work towards another boat. After cruising/sailing in the BC (Before Children) era, last century, we look forward to doing it again in retirement.

Any others willing to share their experiences please do.
dmgf

[aegean adrift]

Originally Posted by hoppy

double or triple check the facts

In other countries (cough, cough), quadruple that.

I don't know about boats specifically, but if you're planning to have any work done locally, plan to be there the entire time it's being done to supervise.

Further, in some cultures (cough, cough) a "helpful local" "friend" might not be entirely on your side in the negotiations, even if they live in your home country and you've known them for years.

That said, could I interest you in a gulet?

[swagman]

Hi DMGF,
If you do see something worthwhile via the net you might try and find a forum member living close by who might be happy to have quick look over the boat and give you a viewpoint.
I know we have members in Croatia, Greece, etc.
We helped someone from Australia find what he wanted on the UK south coast and he's now a good mate - so it was well worthwhile.
Good luck
JOHN

[beneteau-500]

well i will speak on Greece only i would not Trust them with a pinch of salt at the moment it is a buyers market there as many of the owners who have yachts that are supposed to be registered as commercial yachts when they are not have been hit with big vat bills the sister Yacht to mine was recently sold for 75,000 euros which was a steal as yacht had new engine and g/box fitted recently if any one does want a reliable broker/surveyor then i can recommend some one ( pm for details ) but when dealing with others be careful and make sure you receive the vat cert of them as a lot of sellers have kept original then try and reclaim vat back as they say yacht was exported out of greece

[goboatingnow]

dealing with others be careful and make sure you receive the vat cert of them as a lot of sellers have kept original then try and reclaim vat back as they say yacht was exported out of greece

I think you'll find that's an urban myth a private seller ( not a vat registered company) cannot reclaim vat at any stage especially on a second hand vessel. Secondly least you mislead people there's no such thing as a VAT cert. There's the original sales invoice which should show a vat payment.

Dave

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Secondly least you mislead people there's no such thing as a VAT cert. There's the original sales invoice which should show a vat payment.

so annoyingly true

[barnakiel]

Some experiences, bad ones:
- the boats are always in the sun,
- the boats are always in the water,
- the boats are never winterized,
- quality of (vast many) repair facilities is nil.

Resulting in:
- rotten sails, canvas, dodgers&biminis, lines, all things plastic (incl. instrument cases in the cockpit) and window rubber gaskets,
- receiving a dumb look when you ask to see the bottom of the boat,
- dead or nearly so engines, dead batteries,
- having to correct things after the local 'specialists' have 'repaired' them.

Fixing a boat in the Med is a waste of time - things never get done and get done poorly, people do not crop up or come unprepared and at the wrong time.

That was Italy (1x), Greece (twice) and Croatia (twice).

b.

[VirtualVagabond]

I was tyre kicking (keel kicking?) a boat in Turkey, from half way round the planet. It appears any boat bought from there and exported out of Turkey will be up for "export fees"... around 4,500 Euro on a 150,000 US$ boat.
And NO, it wasn't a gullet!

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Fixing a boat in the Med is a waste of time - things never get done and get done poorly, people do not crop up or come unprepared and at the wrong time.

That was Italy (1x), Greece (twice) and Croatia (twice).

b.

Any places to get good cheap work done in the Med? I'm thinking equivalent to Mexico, Dominican Republic etc .... Maybe Tunisia? Morocco? Obviously assuming close scrutiny, possibly expat. supervision...??

[savoir]

There is a very strong chance that any cheap boat bought in Croatia, Greece or Turkey will be ex charter. That may or may not worry you.

There is another class of boat in Croatia that for want of a better name I will call " tax fiddle " boats. Look for plush brands like HR and Swan. They are the best buys in Croatia if you can afford them.

[beneteau-500]

well why then are 90% of the boats listed for sale in greece showing vat status NOT PAID because when purchased new they where registered as charter yachts

Simple they are all registered as charter yachts at time of purchase thats why even if they are used as private yachts and by doing this they pay lower marina fees and they claim all the repair costs back .

In alimos marina a professional Registered 12m yacht will pay around 195 euros a month marina fees againts a private registered yacht who will now pay 850 euros a month

[Burls]

Personally, our experience when we bought in the Med has been a good one. But we had a great Broker (French), and the surveyor was from the UK. (Which assisted in minimizing any miscommunication, and we 'knew where he was coming from', as such.)
Just like most places in the world, the amount of discount you will receive off the list price, is based on how motivated the seller is, and their grasp on reality of the current market. Short list your boats and just make offers until you find the best value deal.
There are specific processes and ‘gotchas’ in buying a boat anywhere in the world, the IMO trick is to do the research and ask enough questions to educate yourself as much as possible, so you don’t fall into any traps.
I’m definitely no guru, but it seemed to me that the standards to which boats are kept, are generally proportional to how developed the country is where the boat has been based/where the owner comes from. This is aside to the already regularly discussed ‘charter versus owner boats’ topic of course.