De-Bond 5200 and Silicone!

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Roy M

Gord, I agree with you as to the relative merits of silicone vs. almost anything else, but it's still classed as an adhesive. The parts I was able to separate were installed by ze French, about 9-10 years ago on a Catana 431 catamaran mast, about 60+ feet high. If I had not had the product, I would have been totally unable to pull them apart. I mention this stuff because most of us use 5200 and have to undo our handiwork (or someone else's) from time to time, and this stuff really works. And I still love and respect you (kiss,kiss).

5200 is a polyurethane adhesive - not a silicone.
The joke about silicone, is that it sticks to nothing (a slight exageration), and that nothing sticks to it , including itself (very true).
After using silicone, you cannot effectively remove the oily residues, which prevent re-sealing with new silicone, or any other product.
As others have implied, silicone's use by the ignorant should be criminally banned.

[s/v 'Faith']

Amen Gord!

As others have implied, silicone's use by the ignorant should be criminally banned.

[Mathil]

The oily residues of silicone are removable. Things like acetone and any other number of solvents will remove it and leave a dry surface, acetone especially. Just make sure that the surface you're cleaning is acetone safe.

I work for a company that builds RV's and we glue our fibreglass roof structures to the tops of vans with 3m 5200. I've had the pleasure of trying to remove one of said roofs and it is doable. Don't expect to save whatever part you're removing though.

[sandy daugherty]

I just got some 'Marine Formula' to try. Will post later.

[s/v 'Faith']

The oily residues of silicone are removable. Things like acetone and any other number of solvents will remove it and leave a dry surface, acetone especially.

Absolutely will not work to remove silicone oil from fiberglass.

[Mathil]

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

Absolutely will not work to remove silicone oil from fiberglass.

Raw fibreglass, or gelcoat coated fibreglass? The former could melt the resin, the latter is totally resistant to acetone.

[San Juan Sailor]

I know that silicone can stick to fiberglass and can be next to impossible to get off. On a boat I worked on, a previous owner had used quantities of clear silicone. I can tell you if it isn't an adhesive, it sure can fake it!

On the subject of silicone contamination, I'm a woodworker and won't allow anything silicone anywhere near my shop. The slightest amount of contamination from a silicone lubricant creates a nightmare at the finishing end
Dan

[Mathil]

I was assuming non porous surfaces. I would not expect a piece of wood to survive and be re-finishable after being glued to anything, with anything, without significant wood removal beforehand (ie lots of sanding).

[perchance]

Yes silicone sticks! To my clothes to my hair and anywhere else i don't want it to Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[jward]

I used De-Bond to remove a hatch that was "permanently" secured with 3M 5200. I srayed a little De-Bond in the crevice, gave it a few seconds and began to slowly work a putty knife between hatch and deck. As I lifted, i sprayed a little more De-Bond. The hatch gave way easily and not a scratch on the gelcoat. After I removed the hatch completely, the gelcoat edge around the cutout looked pristine.

[s/v Jedi]

Silicone is a very effective sealant and adhesive if properly used and for the right jobs.

I always think back to when I was remodeling our bath room. Everything old had to go, incl all wall- and floor tiles so there was no need for "precision-removal" of toilet, wash basin etc.

That wash basin showed what silicone can do. This was a 2' wide porcelain free hanging wash basin, attached to the wall with two bolts. The seam between basin and wall had a silicon fillet, like you see everywhere.
I took out the bolts, taking care the basin didn't fall on my head ;-) Well, I shouldn't have worried because it would not come off. I tried pulling, kicking, sitting on it (>200 lbs at work), even standing and jumping up & down on it, not a single sign of coming loose.

I took a piece of steel wire and cut through the silicone in a couple seconds and it was off the wall. There was only this 2' wide single silicone fillet. So, silicone is an adhesive indeed.

On a boat, silicon has some uses too, so I think it's stupid to forbid it aboard. Galley counter, wash basins, vanity etc. is much like ashore and silicone is the best sealant there. I also use it during the construction of refrigeration boxes. The top of the box and even the fiddle rail is all done with silicone, so that it can be easily removed if needed.

Also, it is a good thread-sealant for plumbing, high temperature gaskets like on the engine etc.

I would not use it anywhere above deck.

ciao!
Nick.

[sbrin]

I'm curious to know if the "DeBond" works as well, better or worse than the small spray can sold by West Marine($) to undo the bonding of 5200> Has anybody compared the two?

[botanybay]

Originally Posted by sbrin

I'm curious to know if the "DeBond" works as well, better or worse than the small spray can sold by West Marine($) to undo the bonding of 5200> Has anybody compared the two?

Well, I tried it on a winch base and did not get any advantage at all but after I finally got it off the deck it turned out to be white silicone sealant with enough surface area...

Now I am dealing with the large portlight frames in the Saloon, definitely leaking around the edge of the aluminum frame, the toughened glass is bedded into a channel in the frame and is not leaking. I can see the extra sealant around the frame and picked some out, it appears to be 5200 as it was strongly attached to the aluminum frame.

My concern is flexing the frame at all might break the glass... At least the bond is purely on the deck to frame and is flat, no compound surfaces. I can also take out all of the screws and apply the de-bond into the holes. Hopefully it does not cause trouble for plywood?

So, I am curious about application techniques which people have tried. How long have you had to wait to get the effect?

Also, the decks are painted with white 2 part polyurathane, will the de-bond have any impact on that sitting for awhile? It did not appear to have any effect on the deck under the winch bases...

Thanks for any input, I hope I can get this apart.

[muskoka]

Silicone is an adhesive and a sealant - as an architect I've specified it for bonding structural glass curtain walls, hanging mirrors, etc. However, the oils in silicone contaminate anything less porous than glass or vitreous china (ie fibreglass & gelcoat) so you should only use silicone where you'd use it at home - that is, as a sparingly used bathroom & kitchen sealant.

There are products for removing silicone sealant but I doubt they'll work on fibreglass or gelcoat as the oil will have permeated the surface.

If you want adhesive use 5200 or 4200 - if you want a mastic sealant use 101. Don't use silicone above decks under any circumstance unless you really want your boats next owner to swear at you....

[botanybay]

Originally Posted by muskoka

Silicone is an adhesive and a sealant - as an architect I've specified it for bonding structural glass curtain walls, hanging mirrors, etc. However, the oils in silicone contaminate anything less porous than glass or vitreous china (ie fibreglass & gelcoat) so you should only use silicone where you'd use it at home - that is, as a sparingly used bathroom & kitchen sealant.

There are products for removing silicone sealant but I doubt they'll work on fibreglass or gelcoat as the oil will have permeated the surface.

If you want adhesive use 5200 or 4200 - if you want a mastic sealant use 101. Don't use silicone above decks under any circumstance unless you really want your boats next owner to swear at you....

I am not sure how this refers to my question, the original builder (or someone along the way) put this together. I would love some direct experience with the de-bond product for this type of removal. If anyone has any direct experience with this product I would like to talk with them.

Thanks