Hamas Election Victory Shocks World

[ssullivan]

Sorry about the wander, but this is a way-off thread anyway.

I was curious if any of you have traveled to the area in question. I have been, and it was actually the best trip of my life. I was not on a religious pilgrimage, but thoroughly enjoyed the cultures, languages, and seeing Arabic on signs. I never felt as "foreign" as going to this area.

Also interesting were the Israeli security measures and the huge guys with AK-47s pointing at you in airports, tourist areas, etc....

It's surreal... and at the same time, frighteningly real.

[CaptainK]

Hey Sean.

Sorry for the thread wonder!!

I have been to Israel. 4 times. 2 times in 1988. And 2 times in 1990.

And during my last visit. The Israeli Army was shelling some positions near the Lebanonese/Israeli border. 40 miles away from Hafi. Hafi is a sea coastal city in Israel.

The Israeli Army supplied security at the USO building while we were there at every visit. They wore street clothes, instead of their uniforms. But they had their Uzi's with spare clips of magazines for their Uzi's. Protection provided, both by women & men from the Israeli Army.

[ssullivan]

CaptainK once whispered in the wind:
Hey Sean.

Sorry for the thread wonder!!

I have been to Israel. 4 times. 2 times in 1988. And 2 times in 1990.

And during my last visit. The Israeli Army was shelling some positions near the Lebanonese/Israeli border. 40 miles away from Hafi. Hafi is a sea coastal city in Israel.

The Israeli Army supplied security at the USO building while we were there at every visit. They wore street clothes, instead of their uniforms. But they had their Uzi's with spare clips of magazines for their Uzi's. Protection provided, both by women & men from the Israeli Army.

Very interesting. I have also been to Haifa. It was a nice town, although close to conflict. I also visited Jerusalem from Tel Aviv, which was along some highway that had tons of bombed out military vehicles from the 6 day war ( I think it's called) where Isreal took part of Jerusalem, Golan Heights, etc...

I never did get to visit the Mosque in Jerusalem since I was with Israelis. I was able to visit the Wailing Wall and other sights Jews are in control of. They wouldn't step foot in the more Islamic areas of Jerusalem. I was feeling a little more adventerous.

Dead sea was cool too... that place would throw all of our standard nautical stability equations right out the window! ha ha

Did you also notice that you are now not welcome in many countries if your passport is stamped as having been to Israel? I was surprised to find this out after the fact. Luckily, mine just expired and I'm getting a new one which will be blank (and an EU one as well!!)

If there's one thing we all have in common on this board (other than boats), it's probably a love for travel.

[CaptainK]

Oh hell Sean.

I love to travel. It's in my blood. Of course there's always the $$$$ factor that prohibits me form making certain ventures. But, I sure loving traveling. That way someday, I hope to get that perfect sailboat for myself. And maybe down the road for a future Mrs. CaptainK. And travel alot.

Now I can tell you about the Suez Canel. You're talking about bombed out vehicles. There's alot of them along the canel. During the six day war? And there are tanks, half-tracks. Deuce and a halfs. You name it. It's there. All bombed, charred and rusting.

[BC Mike]

Over the last several years quite a few countries have changed from non voting, to voting for their governments. This has affected several hundred million people. Lets not forget this when one area of the world votes for a party that we on the outside are not in favour of. The overwhelming trend is for more democracy with more freedom. Ask the people in Estonia, Latvia, Luthuwania, Poland, East Germany, Georgia, and many many other countries, if the world is going to hell as John prophersies, or is getting better.
Interesting that the folks still doing things in the name of God are still having so much trouble.
Michael

[Alan Wheeler]

OK I wasn't going to enter this topic. Too shakey ground for me. But Sean, you pricked my curiosity. I had never heard of the passport thing. I wonder if that is American or anyone that has been to Isreal. I have two freinds here, that went over and volunteered for a 6 week stint for the Israely army. They filled sand bags etc. It thought that a pretty cool thing to do for a holiday.
I am NOT taking sides though. There are issues on bothsides of that fence over there.
As for Hamas, I think it will self implode. There are as many Palistinians against Hamas as there are against Israel. It's going to become an internal conflict for awhile, till it gets sorted. At least some pressure will come off of the Israely conflict.

Stede, return??yep maybe, but maybe not. Stand back and take in a bigger picture. Remember, the conflict was because of a curse that God gave between two brothers way back in the old testament remember. The conflict has gone on in differing ways for many centuries. It is possible that it could go on for many more yet. Maybe, maybe not. The big difference today is that we have the Media that brings it into our living rooms and in a dramatised way.
I now a guy that was in Iraq during Saddams rain and there was a rally of people that was televised on TV around the world. TV showed the world a huge crowd of people that were supposedly supporting Saddam. My freind was there and told me the real story. There was a huge crowd alright. But around the rporter was a small group of maybe a dozen loyal supporters. They even suspect they were seen to be 'loyal" because of other sinister reasons. The were chanting all sorts of favourable things about Saddam and holding up banners and flags. But the majority of the crowd was totally opposite. They were being controlled by guards, but the crowd all looked like one on TV. The story was being reported in such away as to portray a particular theme at the time. The world saw it as huge numbers of Iraqy people in support of Saddam.

We maybe fighting wars, but the reasons are often under cover. or
"in war, truth is often the casualty"

[ssullivan]

Straight from Wikipedia:

Israel

Many Muslim countries will not allow entry to people with evidence of a visit to Israel in their passport. To help foreigners circumvent these restrictions, Israel does not require visitors to have their passports stamped upon entry, making it difficult for those countries to tell if a citizen or tourist went there. Many of these nations are aware of the exit stamps placed in passports by Egypt and Jordan at their land borders with Israel and may block entry based on the presence of these stamps. For example, a traveller may be denied entry to certain countries because of the presence of an Egyptian exit stamp indicating the person left Egypt at Taba, at the Israeli border. Some nations will void old passports and reissue new passports to their nationals based on the presence of evidence of a visit to Israel, recognising the passport's function is compromised.

Muslim countries not accepting Israeli passports are:

* Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Comoros, Djibouti, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia (except with written permission from the Malaysian government), Oman, Maldives, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia (Jewish persons are not allowed entry, regardless of nationality), Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates (sources conflict over whether or not passports with Israeli stamps are accepted), Yemen.

[CaptainK]

Wow Sean.

That's quite a list of countries, that don't like Israeli passport stamps.

I can see how much of a hassle it can be to travel around. And then be rejected by a country that hates Israel?

[s/v 'Faith']

ssullivan once whispered in the wind:


Muslim countries not accepting Israeli passports are:

* Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Comoros, Djibouti, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia (except with written permission from the Malaysian government), Oman, Maldives, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia (Jewish persons are not allowed entry, regardless of nationality), Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates (sources conflict over whether or not passports with Israeli stamps are accepted), Yemen. [/B]

Having been to 6 on that list, and to Isreal twice..... I would visit Isreal again, and would not regret never going to any of the countries on that list ever again.

OBTW, to go back on topic.... that list is a pretty good list of pirate havens.....