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Old 09-02-2008, 23:40   #76
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I have to ask as this name hasn't shown up before re the anchor discussion, Who is McDuff??
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Old 10-02-2008, 00:01   #77
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Sorry. GMac = Grant MacDuff.
His outfit is the Spade distributor for New Zealand, although they sell most any brand of anchor including Rocna, most of their numbers being made up by the various Manson types I understand.
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Old 10-02-2008, 02:12   #78
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I though MacDuff was a Disney character???????? You learn a new thing every day.

I was anchored up in 45knots with my measly CQR last week in Pelorus. As each willywar howled through I wondered about the tripe being talked on these anchor threads. Two days later when I went to move it took ages to break the crappy anchor out. I am glad I have a crappy anchor.
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Old 10-02-2008, 02:22   #79
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Is that a place?
Sound more like something that will take out the Alien or Predator in the next hollywood blockbuster
Yes it is a place take a look.
Kill Van Kull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The word Kill is a Dutch word for river. There is a town just north of there called Fishkill and some idiot people wanted to change the name.
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:57   #80
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Originally Posted by GMac View Post
How many people go into a bay, chuck out an undersized anchor and then pour serious piles of horsepower on it to the point it pulls out, breaks and so on?

Anchors need to set and settle to get a real result and sadly anchors don't do this properly in 2 minutes.

And other things.

To get more real life results I'd suggest you need to 'set' a few anchors and leave them for a while then start pulling. Then we will see some differing results, on some anchors quite a bit of difference.
Lots.
As a cruiser, this is exactly what I do every night. only I use a properly sized anchor.

Who would buy an anchor if you had to follow a protocal before it would hold: Drop anchor, wait 30 seconds, slowly back down on anchor, wait 2 minutes, back down with more force, wait 2 hours, or until anchor has settle before expecting any holding power.

I came into atlantic city during tropical storm 15 this fall, 2007, I dropped my anchor in 50 mph winds, and I expected it to hold. not in 2 minutes, not after it settles for a while. I want it to set right away.

During a storm in 2005, came into an anchorage about an acre in size (no room to drag), surrounded by rocks. Dropped anchor in high winds, and expected the anchor to hold. right then.

I think the test is informative, no matter the size of boat, or anchor.
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:10   #81
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Seafox and I have been side by side in varying conditions often. Seafox's anchor has held just as good as mine. Seafox has a time tried and proven way of how they anchor and it works very well for them.
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:58   #82
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GMac, as the one who "actually organised and paid for the bloody prototypes" of the Rocna anchor you must know who invented it?
Did you agree to produce the prototypes free of charge for someone who stole the design, or did you produce it for the original designer?
Yeap Pete Smith designed the Rocna based roughly off Alains Spade. No one I know has stolen any Rocna design in the commercial sense, I do know of a few individual made variations though. I chose to help with the proto types, it was my choice and I don't have a problem with that.

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I suppose I should address this now after confirming the facts with Peter, although again I suppose I am in danger from Wheeler. For the record:
MacDuff's claim that he organized or paid for any Rocna prototypes is false (at least, none that were authorized). He was involved in early testing but never design or construction. I do not know if he did anything for any others.
For Sale - a couple of metal objects, some cardboard patterns and a copy of an invoice. All in good condition just left over from my days when I used to roam the streets stealing designs and making the odd anchor for no apparent reason.

'Un-authorised' - get a grip on reality before it's too late Craig. But thanks for yet another laugh, that was a goodie.

May I suggest using some manners may decrease your chances of being sent on holiday yet again. Mr Wheeler is the polite way to say it.

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So you are saying the test was not fair because the boat putting the loads on the various anchors was to big and the anchors realized this?
It was fair to all but hardly real life except maybe on my boat.

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You dont think the testers attempted to set the anchors properly?
Yes they did but due to time restraints they can't have set and settled.

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You beleive the testers did not wait long enough for the anchors to set?
If the anchors had been left to settle it would mimic real life a lot more.

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and other things?
Absolutly a yes on other things.

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Originally Posted by craigsmith View Post
Sorry. GMac = Grant MacDuff.
His outfit is the Spade distributor for New Zealand, although they sell most any brand of anchor including Rocna, most of their numbers being made up by the various Manson types I understand.
Sure do sell Spade but a lot more Rocnas. Craigs understanding is a bit off, Mansons assorted are not our biggest sellers, close though.

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I though MacDuff was a Disney character???????? You learn a new thing every day
Shakespeare baby. Caught shagging the Kings missus or something I think

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Lots.
I think the test is informative, no matter the size of boat, or anchor.
Yes they can be very informative but as long as you remember they do have big limitations. As we all know an anchor will hold better after a few hours than a few minutes. They settle and dig down in the the firmer stuff after a bit of time, assuming they have some load. The deeper into the seabed the better the holding, this is well known. Look around at 'when' most boats drag. I'm sure you'll see by far most do so in the 1st hour or so after throwing the pick over the pointy end.
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:02   #83
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Craigs understanding is a bit off, Mansons assorted are not our biggest sellers, close though.
And with the carry on, I suggest it may change.
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:47   #84
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OK, I will stop being politie and leave this last post of your standing.
I continue and will continue to delete your posts if you continue as you have to add nothing of relevance to this discussion other than flaming the Mod/Admin team.
I suggest you read the rules before posting any further! If you want to participate in this discussion, stick to the topic which is "trying out a Rocna".
And I would also really appreciate you not twisting my words in future.
My statment to you was, "go back and read past history and it will make very clear what is happening in this thread" or words very similar. (I can paste the exact comment here if you wish) Not "has informed me that I don't know what I am talking about yadayada.
Now yet again, another two posts get added to this thread that have no relation to the topic and is left here only because a member thinks we are all a conspiracy.
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Old 10-02-2008, 13:21   #85
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And with the carry on, I suggest it may change.
I'm not one to take the sins of the son out on the father.
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Old 10-02-2008, 13:37   #86
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Look around at 'when' most boats drag. I'm sure you'll see by far most do so in the 1st hour or so after throwing the pick over the pointy end.
Nonsense. Everyone knows that most boats drag between 2 am and 4 am. Or as soon as you step ashore and stop paying attention to them.
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Old 10-02-2008, 14:45   #87
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How many people go into a bay, chuck out an undersized anchor and then pour serious piles of horsepower on it to the point it pulls out, breaks and so on?

Anchors need to set and settle to get a real result and sadly anchors don't do this properly in 2 minutes.

And other things.

To get more real life results I'd suggest you need to 'set' a few anchors and leave them for a while then start pulling. Then we will see some differing results, on some anchors quite a bit of difference.

We've been cruising for three seasons (6 month each season) and have been in the Bahamas since 12-2-07. We have only spent 4 nights at marinas and the rest on the hook, moving at least every other day.

We NEVER "wait" for our anchor to set. If in 10', we put out 25', back slowly and when we feel a tug we put out another 50' while backing. When we have all 75' out I back down hard on the anchor. The 35# Delta has held EVERY time.....in sand, sea grass or the mud in Marsh Harbor.

I have never seen anyone go through the "proper" anchoring technique. If you want an anchor that sets fast and stays put, even when turning 180 degrees during the night, buy a Delta. (Never tried the Rocna, so I can not comment)

Last year we used our 55#(?) CQR with fairly good results, but nothing close to the Delta. A friend that used to cruise insisted that I borrow his Delta this season. When we get back to the States, a new 45# Delta will be my first purchase. They work in the "real" world.
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Old 10-02-2008, 16:51   #88
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When we get back to the States, a new 45# Delta will be my first purchase. They work in the "real" world.
I agree, we crusied the Bahamas and Florida for 7 years with a Delta # 55.
I only let us down once: While anchored in Honeymoon Harborm, we dragged and ended up on a reef until the tide came back.

THe holding ground was/is real poor there however and I share the blame for the mishap. I should have known better.

Sold the Delta and bought a Rocan 20KG. So far I am very happy with the Rocna. I get better holding with less weight.
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Old 10-02-2008, 22:03   #89
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I am going to let everyone know the secret to anchoring properly. GMAC, Craigsmith and the Manson people have been begging me not to publish this but enough is enough.

Study hall "Sticky Anchor"

Now before you start to lower your anchor (any kind of anchor), liberally apply lots of ETA peanut butter. No other brands seem to work. You have to use Eta. You can use crunchy or smooth peanut butter though. The crunchy does work best in sand and the smooth does well in rocky bottoms.

You will stick like a rock and sleep well. In the morning when you go to leave, don't put it on your toast. You never know who emptied their heads during the night.

Well the secret is now out.
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Old 10-02-2008, 22:48   #90
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Umm Darryl, that lightening storm keep you awake all night???

GMac is actually right in what he is tryign to say. But the replies from ohter members is also correct. We don't allow an anchor to settle. What GMac is trying to say is that there are different ways each design needs to work. The fellow from Manson stated that in a post a few days back. A plough type design requires it to sink down very deep. It is the abiolity to pull down into the harder bottom material that makes it work. It is that same bottom material settling and "encasing" the anchor down deep that makes it hold even stronger. The anchors that have large surface areas work by trying to simply hold as large a piece of bottom material as it can. A slight draw back of these anchors is that all that bottom material comes to the surface with the anchor.
The load testing of anchors is also an issue. The rode, be it chain or rope, is essential to getting the best the anchor can give. Simply pull till it breaks out is not a true test for just the anchor and certainly not a true test for differing designs. The only true test in this way would be trying to measure two identical anchor designs side by side. Not sure what the point of that would be. To gain maximum holding power, the rode should be suited to the anchor, be of the correct length and the correct angle. There may in fact be such a test done that way some where. But I have not ever seen one carried out.

Interestingly, has anybody had anything to do with the Sarca anchor?? Yet another spade with a hoop. But slots cut in the flukes. Not sure what the methodology is behind the slots.
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