Is there a Quality Anchor Swivel?

[banyandah]

We have never used an anchor rode swivel. We do not like any weak link in our rode. Maybe they are better designed than when we first set out, I don’t know. But I do know, in our style of cruising we do not need one.


Firstly, in tropical sailing the vessel stays pretty much in a static position, unless effected by tidal flow, and then the vessel generally rotates with the trade wind. In higher latitude, changeable winds might swing the vessel round ‘n round, but we’re just not anchored long enough for that to be a factor to our 60 m of chain. Weedy bottoms can roll chain as it slides over the weed, thick Ribbon Weed particularly. A swivel would not stop that as the chain rolls up mid-span.

Yes, our chain sometimes gets a few twists, but these generally get shunted towards the anchor as it comes up by going over the gypsy, and work themselves out when the anchor lifts. Very occasionally, maybe once a year, we’ll drop the whole lot in deep water to let it untwist.



Again, we just do not like a weak link in our rode and that is how we view swivels.


Hope this helps.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Can you provide the links where currently available ULTRA Swivels have been tested and failed below their respective SWL's please.

'Tis interesting all toggles on most rigging rely on a loose pin in side load with 3mm cheeks held together via a split pin, our jumper struts to our prodders take misaligned loads every day without failure.

Our ULTRA swivel has a 16 Tonne SWL that far surpasses any shackle we could ever fit.

Our decision is not taken lightly and i don't simply run on opinions, if i can see failures i will take ULTRA to task in person.

Cheers.

I would never imply that you take decisions lightly or "run on opinions". I am only expressing my personal opinion, and others of course will have their own.

There are dozens of reported failures of the cast Ultra swivels, the ones which were recalled. I have not heard of failures of the machined ones, but I have not gone looking for it, either, I never seriously considered buying one.

You can see from Viv Cox's tests that claimed SWL's and reality may be, and often is, very different. If I were seriously considering buying one of these, I would look into it very carefully, and, as the anchor man above suggested, ask to see actual test data. A claim of 16 tonnes SWL would surely put me on my guard -- what would that be, 64 tonnes UTS? Or at least 48? It would have to be made of Kryptonite to have such strength. A swivel made of 316 stainless would need to be block weighing probably 10 kilos to have strength like that. And that's not considering that narrow neck.

But all of that is strictly from my own armchair -- it's your ship, so of course only you can choose the essential safety gear, and decide how to evaluate it! Good luck and cheers.

[Privleoplag]

Originally Posted by congo

Hi Lagoon4

Rex here from Anchor Right Australia, swivels regardless of brand and stregnth they are all proan to whare, the load bearing that is rated on a swivel from new will reduce from day one that you employ it.

..... further stainless does not like impact, we have had a number of customers loosing there anchors upon retrievel over the bow roller, the stainless swivel has snapped only to see theire anchor dissapear............

Just my opinion.
Regards.
Rex CEO of Anchor Right Australia.

http://svdakotadream.net/gallery2/in...e-BVI/DSC00320
Exactly what happened to us on a recent charter... Fortunately, I was able to show that the failure had started before it broke on us...saved us a large lost anchor fee. Notice the bit of rust showing almost 1/3 of the way through. Broke coming over the bow roller. (yes, I tried for 45 minutes to find the anchor, wind just had the sand too stirred up, but if no one hooks it or when the silt settles down and no one dives over it, I'll find it next time around)

[River Cruiser]

Thanks to all the posters with relevant information i appreciate the use of your experience in buying a swivel I believe that will work just fine with my existing gear. I found a new Kong on eBay & got it for $15.00 + $4.90 shipping, it appears to my eye to be very sturdy & should give years of service.

[Mark Johnson]

Yep, this one was sold at a SSCA booth, and is probably the best swivel in the world. It sold for around $275, but is a lifetime investment. It is much stronger, even with a side load, than the HT chain it is connected to.

This is after 13 years, tens of thousands of miles, and thousands of nights on the hook. It glides right over the roller.

It's a WASI... I'd risk my boat on it, and do!

M.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Privleoplag

DSC00320
Exactly what happened to us on a recent charter... Fortunately, I was able to show that the failure had started before it broke on us...saved us a large lost anchor fee. Notice the bit of rust showing almost 1/3 of the way through. Broke coming over the bow roller. (yes, I tried for 45 minutes to find the anchor, wind just had the sand too stirred up, but if no one hooks it or when the silt settles down and no one dives over it, I'll find it next time around)

Is that a picture of a swivel? What kind of swivel? Which part of the swivel is in the picture? I just can't make out what the picture is, besides the obvious fact that it is a piece of stainless with crevice corrosion on part of it. If it is a swivel, it looks like it was undersized for your boat/anchor (or you have really large fingers).

Mark

[Privleoplag]

yup, that is the swivel.. 1/2 of it anyway, the other half sunk with the anchor. What you're seeing is the center post of the swivel. If you go to the picture and scroll one way or the other you'll see what they replaced it with!! A buckle that barely fit, and only 1/4 inch.. because it was the only thing they had that would fit. I was very careful when anchoring the rest of the trip, fortunately only a few more days. I stressed to the charter company that that had to get changed before anyone else went out!

The swivel that broke on the boat was maybe 5/16 center post. I don't know the brand.. I do know that the swivel they brought to replace it with was twice the size but would not fit on the anchor/chain so they jury rigged it with the undersized buckle. Unbelievable, but in the islands, what do you do? Sometimes, just do the best you can.

We sleep good with our Garmin anchor alarm.. Don't leave home without it!

[zeehag]

there may be an allegedly good swivel--but i have seen way too many boats break loose from moorings and from anchors while a swivel was in use. is weakest part f system.
chafe in rope rode is another reason to use all chain rode...seen that break away many many any times over one season here in rockybottomville.....

[Lagoon4us]

Good info!

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

Yep, this one was sold at a SSCA booth, and is probably the best swivel in the world. It sold for around $275, but is a lifetime investment. It is much stronger, even with a side load, than the HT chain it is connected to.

This is after 13 years, tens of thousands of miles, and thousands of nights on the hook. It glides right over the roller.

It's a WASI... I'd risk my boat on it, and do!

M.

[boatman61]

There's no such thing...

[sck5]

Here's another vote for no swivel at all. I use a rocna and have never had a problem. The chain untwists itself as it comes in.

[Lagoon4us]

Some base logic applies, the pivoting ball of the ULTRA pivot is forged SS, it's around 18mm diameter on ours.

Our chain is 12mm diameter.

A bow shackle body would be a little less than 12mm diameter.

I have faith regardless that the tensile strength of the ULTRA pivot far and away exceeds the above mentioned components.

A swivel does not have to be the weak link if it's of quality, and yes i have the test cert's.

A swivel does absolute wonders allowing an anchor to reset it's not all about removing twist.

Cheers

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Some base logic applies, the pivoting ball of the ULTRA pivot is forged SS, it's around 18mm diameter on ours.

Our chain is 12mm diameter.

A bow shackle body would be a little less than 12mm diameter.

I have faith regardless that the tensile strength of the ULTRA pivot far and away exceeds the above mentioned components.

A swivel does not have to be the weak link if it's of quality, and yes i have the test cert's.

A swivel does absolute wonders allowing an anchor to reset it's not all about removing twist.

Cheers

What does a swivel have to do with resetting? Surely 100' of chain or rope has zero resistance to twist!

On the other hand, during testing is when you have the highest forces sideloading the swivel. The swivel (of attached directly to the shank) will also increase the bending stresses in the shank by increasing the lever arm

[Lagoon4us]

A swivel removes all rode bias without any doubt.

Don't like the swivel connected direct to the shank i much prefer 3 links to take out side load totally, it works for us nicely.

Cheers

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Don't get me wrong i accept criticism of products if it's warranted and justified. I would like to know details of failures when considering any bit of new kit BUT not just blanket negative opinion without basis.



Cheers.

I was looking for information on the Ultra swivel, so dredged this thread up. When it comes to ground tackle, people vigorously defend their choices, sometimes just with an informed if skewed opinion that supports their decision and sometimes just with complete rubbish. To a couple of points raised in this conversation.....

The Ultra swivel does not use threaded screws to deal with forces applied to the swivel, as authoritatively and incorrectly asserted above. It use a small set screw secured with Locktite to keep a properly sized pin in place. No threads take any load whatsoever.

Second, Craig Smith's views on anchoring are interesting, but one should try to remember that when speaking about other people's products, Mr. Smith has proved himself to be thoroughly unreliable (politely put), trashing the materials of competitors' products while slyly changing the quality of steel used in the Rocna without bothering to tell anyone about it. It's why they lost their company, for heaven's sake - they couldn't be trusted to tell the truth and people lost confidence in the product.

I've got limited experience with the Ultra swivel, but it seems to be a very well engineered and compact piece of gear that is rated about double the breaking strength of my 1/2" G4. I may have a different view based on future experience, but for now, seems like it represents a quality solution to getting the anchor over the side through a narrow chute without taking a hacksaw to a shackle half as strong. Which is what I did before the Ultra.