Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-06-2013, 10:43   #1
Registered User

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 39
Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

In our boat search we came across a 36 Cabot that we have had our eye on.
While looking at this picture we noticed the rigging has been changed from the original. They added a bow sprit extension and moved the forestay out on to the bowsprit.
The concern is this. In a typical bowsprit the sprit extends aft and mounts on deck. This new configuration does not do that and it seems like there is potential for failure at the pivot point at the anchor rollers.
Is using tubular steel attaching to the hull under the deck to hull joint sufficient? is seems there would be unintended load transferred to the forestay and then the mast?
Every other Cabot we have seen does not have a bowsprit.
Thoughts? Are we over thinking this?

See attached photo.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	4358586_20130508092548889_1_XLARGE.jpg
Views:	162
Size:	69.7 KB
ID:	61784  
__________________

__________________
ShayW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 10:50   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

I have seen it done, and it depends on getting the engineering right. There would have to be substantial reinforcement where the bow pulpit/sprit connects to the hull, and where the bobstay fitting connects. I personally don't like the idea of carrying two heavy anchors out there on the end, but you could easily remedy that storage situation. You might want to have someone look at it who is more than a surveyor--possibly a professional boatbuilder or a naval architect.
__________________

__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 10:59   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: michigan
Boat: CORBIN 39
Posts: 301
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

not much load on that bowsprint. it acts like the spreader on a mast. the forestay load is on the bobstay.as long as it is well attached to the stem and the bowsprint is firmly attached as well. it will work fine.
__________________
sailr69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 10:59   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 267
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

That is not a very good configuration. Your concerns are justified. That being said, it is not a huge job to rectify the situation.
__________________
haw1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 11:19   #5
Registered User
 
sailvayu's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Myers FL
Boat: Irwin 40
Posts: 878
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

It appears they left the original fore stay tang intact so guess that is good. It also looks like maybe they did this to accommodate the somewhat sketchy looking windlass installation. A system like this is just that a system. Many parts to it, attachment to deck, bob stay, bob stay tang, and so on. I would want to carefully inspect the whole thing and then make a judgment. The concept is not bad just have to evaluate the execution. It could also have some effect on sailing performance or helm feel as it will change the balance of the sail area somewhat.
__________________
Capt. Wayne Canning, AMS
www.projectboat.info
http://sailvayu.com/
sailvayu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 11:44   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,006
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

The bowsprit looks typical of Stainless Steel sprits. The good old wood bowsprit needed to be bolted to the deck to take the compression load, SS allows you to go to the side of the hull and it's theoretically strongest point.

Having said the above, all the junk that they bolted/welded on looks very cluttered and adds unnecessary weight.

Sprits are added to a boat to increase sail area without going to a taller mast and/or to cure a weather helm problem. Have seen it done to a number of boats both by the manufacturers and owners. The Bristol 39-40 was originally marketed without a bowsprit. The factory added a SS bowsprit in it's final years of production to increase performance and to allow for the variety of sail configurations of a double headsail rig.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 07:23   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
FSMike's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bahamas/Florida
Boat: Solaris Sunstar 36' catamaran
Posts: 2,654
Images: 5
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

The ones I have seen that I liked were of a piece, all welded together.
I wouldn't care to have one that had any bolted together parts.
__________________
Sail Fast Live Slow
FSMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 09:23   #8
Registered User

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 39
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

Thanks for your input. Sounds like I need to evaluate the ground tackle system, the execution of the bowsprit and how it effected performance. I do appreciate having the venue!
__________________
ShayW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 09:56   #9
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

Getting the anchor in front of the bob stay is pretty darn nice. Dealing with chafe from the stay is a bother. Does seam like you could move the anchor back quite a bit though.
__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:05   #10
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,777
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

chafe and anchor forward of bobstay are problems solved by the rollers on sprit and the bridle one uses for snubbing chain while at anchor

is there a deck mounting also, or hull only?
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 10:23   #11
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
chafe and anchor forward of bobstay are problems solved by the rollers on sprit and the bridle one uses for snubbing chain while at anchor

is there a deck mounting also, or hull only?
Tell me how if you have your rode behind the head and bob stay you don't have problems with chafe on the bob stay? The only way I know of is to have your snubber run down to the water line and attach to the bob stay lower fitting and run through a block on the end of the bow sprit.. That works well but you have no way to adjust the length of your snubber. The problem of chain rubbing on the stay could be delt with. Using plastic pipe on the bob stay seem like a poor looking soultion.
__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 14:18   #12
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,777
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

rarely does my snubber bridle chafe with my bobstay--my roller, from which my chain falls, is on my sprit, forward of the pointy end, - and the deck end of the snubber goes thru my hawse holes, forward of my bits/sampson post, where my anchor chain is secured.....i use a bridle as it makes the yawing minimal, and keeps the chain away from the bobstay, and is at almost the same level as my lower bobstay fitting...so both sides of bridle are forward of the bobstay, and the chain is below the bobstay fitting by a couple of inches. when wind is blowing, the chain stretches out with the bridle so it is not anywhere near my bobstay, and there is zero strain on my sprit, as the rope i use for bridle passes thru each side of the bow

if you can find a formosact/hardin sea wolf near you, is easy to see the rig. all three of the boats i mentioned have same anchor and sprit set up as do i--our only differences would be in choice of snubbing rig


if your sprit is also mounted on deck, as well as on your hull, it is good. if there is no deck mount, there is more stress on rig, as the rig is what is supporting it, with some assist from the hull mounted hardware.

there is nothing between the bobstay and the boat hull except the dolphin striker.
. all chain and snubber line are on the far side of the sprit from the bow, away from the boat, and half way to the jib, which is mounted on the end of the bowsprit, which, on my boat, is about 8 ft in length
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 14:42   #13
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
rarely does my snubber bridle chafe with my bobstay--my roller, from which my chain falls, is on my sprit, forward of the pointy end, - and the deck end of the snubber goes thru my hawse holes, forward of my bits/sampson post, where my anchor chain is secured.....i use a bridle as it makes the yawing minimal, and keeps the chain away from the bobstay, and is at almost the same level as my lower bobstay fitting...so both sides of bridle are forward of the bobstay, and the chain is below the bobstay fitting by a couple of inches. when wind is blowing, the chain stretches out with the bridle so it is not anywhere near my bobstay, and there is zero strain on my sprit.

if your sprit is also mounted on deck, as well as on your hull, it is good. if there is no deck mount, there is more stress on rig, as the rig is what is supporting it, with some assist from the hull mounted hardware.
How do you bring up your anchor without without the chain rubbing on the bob stay on a windy day? If the boat swings around in circles and is over you rhode, where are your snubbers touching?
__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 15:13   #14
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

Looks perfectly stable to me. The only force on the bowsprit is compression. If all the elements are strong and sound, I would feel safe as home.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 15:24   #15
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,777
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Rigging Modification - Good or Bad Idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
How do you bring up your anchor without without the chain rubbing on the bob stay on a windy day? If the boat swings around in circles and is over you rhode, where are your snubbers touching?
usually on a windy day i remain at anchor, unless is a furycame , at which time it is marina slip time.
when the wind is blowing, it usually exceeds the tidal current in speed, so boat generally faces into the wind. as the anchor windlass raises the anchor, the boat travels toward the anchor via the chain. i use no rope rode, i use all chain rode. my snubber is a separate single bit of line made into a snubber with a chainhook, and the bitter ends go thru my hawse. raising anchor is not a problem, nor is setting anchor.
as i use a single line for my bridle, there is a knot in middle for the chainhook. each end of the bridle goes into a hawse--there is one on my port side and one on my stbd side.

my snubber doesnt touch the boat except at the hawse and bits, nor does it touch the bobstay
__________________

zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rigging

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.