Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-12-2015, 04:08   #1
Registered User
 
Winf's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Cairns
Boat: Southcoast 36
Posts: 113
Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Ok, tired of dodgy impeller bilge pumps and want to upgrade to something robust and reliable.

Looking at the Whale range. Anyone with experience with the Whale IC range of pumps? Like the simplicity of the system, just not sure about the reliability of the electronic wizardry.

In the bilge, looking at the Bilge IC unit. Alternative to this would be a Whale Gulper 220 rigged up to a standard float switch arrangement.

In the shower/sink sump, looking at installing a Whale Grey IC to eliminate the wet sump and having to clean up gross soapy scum. Not sure what the alternative to the auto switching manifold is but it needs to eliminate the wet sump arrangement.

Cost of the IC is high but prepared to pay for quality, reliable equipment.

Thanks for any comments.

Winf
__________________

__________________
Winf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2015, 20:59   #2
Registered User
 
Winf's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Cairns
Boat: Southcoast 36
Posts: 113
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

^Bump
__________________

__________________
Winf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2016, 10:03   #3
Registered User
 
wrwakefield's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wrangell Island, Alaska
Boat: Nauticat 43
Posts: 861
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winf View Post
Ok, tired of dodgy impeller bilge pumps and want to upgrade to something robust and reliable.

Looking at the Whale range. Anyone with experience with the Whale IC range of pumps? Like the simplicity of the system, just not sure about the reliability of the electronic wizardry.

In the bilge, looking at the Bilge IC unit. Alternative to this would be a Whale Gulper 220 rigged up to a standard float switch arrangement.

In the shower/sink sump, looking at installing a Whale Grey IC to eliminate the wet sump and having to clean up gross soapy scum. Not sure what the alternative to the auto switching manifold is but it needs to eliminate the wet sump arrangement.

Cost of the IC is high but prepared to pay for quality, reliable equipment.

Thanks for any comments.

Winf
Hi Winf,

I've used the Whale Bilge IC pumps on two different boats, and in a friend's house basement sump [to protect him during power outages...] with 100% success.

Perhaps the basement sump is the best test case of the IC as he reports it running ~80% of the time for days on end during heavy rains on the US east coast [subjective]. It is pumping against a 10ft head of 1 1/2in pipe- the maximum allowed in the Whale specs for that pump- and keeps up with his needs. [Like a boat, I backed it up with a 4k gal/hr high water pump.]

I have one in my current boat as the 'nuisance' water pump in the main bilge. It is there to remove as much water as possible [usually down to the last ~3/8" or 1cm..] and help keep the bilge dry. I rely on 3 other bilge pumps mounted at increasing heights to handle water flow and depths that the Whale IC can't handle. [i.e., Emergency pumps.] I've yet to record one of those other 3 pumps activating [each pump has a cycle counter] during routine operations- even when I flush the bilge with a shore water hose.

I like the IC model with the built-in check valve. It seems to work well. The one in my friend's basement is the best test with 10ft of head and silty water. I just inspected it in Nov-2014 and it [the pump and the built-in check valve] was holding up well after 14 months active duty.

The solid state water sensor works well, you just have to make sure the pump is level so the intake is never above the sensor or the pump will not shut off... Also, you can test the sensor of a dry pump by placing your hand on it for ~10 seconds; that makes the pump cycle on.

I also intend to replace the Rule pump and float switch in my shower sumps with Whale IC pumps when the time comes...

In case this helps with your decision.

Cheers!

Bill
__________________
SV Denali Rose

Short on opinions; focused on research, facts & experience [yours and ours...]
wrwakefield is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2016, 12:31   #4
Registered User
 
wrwakefield's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wrangell Island, Alaska
Boat: Nauticat 43
Posts: 861
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Winf,

This is a correction regarding my previous post.

I mistakenly thought the Whale pumps I was referring to were the IC pumps. I was incorrect. Before posting I Googled 'Whale Bilge IC' and saw images of the pumps I used. However, now that I've had more coffee I realize my mistake.

The pumps I referred to in my response, above, are the Whale Supersub [very low profile] pumps.

I do intend to use the IC pumps in my shower sumps as stated, but do not yet have any first hand experience with them. [Most likely the Orca 1300 model.]

I also use a Whale 320 Gulper to empty the Lavac head and empty the holding tank, and that works very well.

I apologize for my confusion, and hope I didn't cause you any...

Cheers!

Bill
__________________
SV Denali Rose

Short on opinions; focused on research, facts & experience [yours and ours...]
wrwakefield is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2016, 12:49   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Refit in Port Townsend, WA
Boat: 1984 Slocum 43
Posts: 419
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

I chucked the nasty shower sump, installed a Whale IC Grey kit and LOVE it! The positives are obvious, here are the negatives:

1. It makes a glug-glug sound while showering. No worries there.
2. As mentioned, the pump needs to be below the sensor or there needs to be enough hose loop below the sensor or it keeps cycling on. Until I can re-jigger the system, I wired a switch to it and we just turn it on before stepping into the shower. When that project makes it up high enough on the project list, I'll re-jigger it so it's automatic.

If you don't mind installing a switch next to the shower, you can skip the IC expense completely and just install a Whale gulper directly to the drains.

The space taken up by the scummy shower sump can now be used for storage or future water maker install. Yay!
__________________
Mycroft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2016, 12:57   #6
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco and Australia
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 1,978
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winf View Post
Ok, tired of dodgy impeller bilge pumps and want to upgrade to something robust and reliable.

Looking at the Whale range. Anyone with experience with the Whale IC range of pumps? Like the simplicity of the system, just not sure about the reliability of the electronic wizardry.

In the bilge, looking at the Bilge IC unit. Alternative to this would be a Whale Gulper 220 rigged up to a standard float switch arrangement.

In the shower/sink sump, looking at installing a Whale Grey IC to eliminate the wet sump and having to clean up gross soapy scum. Not sure what the alternative to the auto switching manifold is but it needs to eliminate the wet sump arrangement.

Cost of the IC is high but prepared to pay for quality, reliable equipment.

Thanks for any comments.

Winf
Are you using a positive displacement impeller pump in the bilge? If so, and your pumping out diesel or other solvents then the typical neoprene impeller wont last long. You'll need a buna n impeller.

If your impellers are failing due to trying to pass solids then you should run a screen filter. Or better yet stop solids getting into your bilge.

Deforming impellers, used in your raw water pump, cant be run dry. Normally your bilge pump is triggered by a float switch which stops the pump running dry.

Most bilge pumps are centrifigal in action. These spin at a higher rpm, tend to have a non replaceable impeller and are more tolerant to solids.

Centrifigal pumps dont maintain a positive head so cant be used to pump from low to high. They also wont self prime or pump with a negative suction pressure.

Its a case of selecting the right pump and impeller for each application.

Mechanical positive displacement pumps with impellers tend to fail more gracefully than solid state centrifigal pumps.

We have a mechanical primary bilge pump and a solid state secondary bilge pump. We'll be replacing our secondary with 4 solid state pumps running in pairs. The second pair will actually be triggered by a higher float switch.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2016, 15:59   #7
Registered User
 
Winf's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Cairns
Boat: Southcoast 36
Posts: 113
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
2. As mentioned, the pump needs to be below the sensor or there needs to be enough hose loop below the sensor or it keeps cycling on.
Thanks for the report and info. I don't really get the above comment though. My understanding was that the idea of the diaphragm pumps was to get the pump up out of where the sensors are?

Winf
__________________
Winf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2016, 16:06   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Do you really mean impellor pumps in the bilge, or the more common centrifugal?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2016, 16:09   #9
Registered User
 
Winf's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Cairns
Boat: Southcoast 36
Posts: 113
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
Are you using a positive displacement impeller pump in the bilge? If so, and your pumping out diesel or other solvents then the typical neoprene impeller wont last long. You'll need a buna n impeller.

If your impellers are failing due to trying to pass solids then you should run a screen filter. Or better yet stop solids getting into your bilge.
Thanks. My mistake, our pumps are the centrifugal type not impeller.

My wife's long hair invariably finds its way to every one despite the screens and it binds up the shaft.

Also, the bilge is almost impossible to access to install a float switch so have been using centrifugal pumps with an inbuilt sensor. So far have been through two units where the sensor has just failed making automatic operation impossible.

Winf
__________________
Winf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2016, 16:42   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Refit in Port Townsend, WA
Boat: 1984 Slocum 43
Posts: 419
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winf View Post
Thanks for the report and info. I don't really get the above comment though. My understanding was that the idea of the diaphragm pumps was to get the pump up out of where the sensors are?
All I can say is my experience. My pump is not greatly higher, but it is higher than the sensor. However, there really isn't a lot of hose directly under the sensor. So the hose from the bottom of the sensor makes an immediate 90 to go up to the pump. The pump isn't able to completely empty the hose between the pump and the sensor so enough water makes it back down to fill the gap between the 90 and the sensor. I think that all I need is a few more inches between the sensor and the 90.
__________________
Mycroft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2016, 17:24   #11
Registered User
 
Winf's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Cairns
Boat: Southcoast 36
Posts: 113
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
All I can say is my experience. My pump is not greatly higher, but it is higher than the sensor. However, there really isn't a lot of hose directly under the sensor. So the hose from the bottom of the sensor makes an immediate 90 to go up to the pump. The pump isn't able to completely empty the hose between the pump and the sensor so enough water makes it back down to fill the gap between the 90 and the sensor. I think that all I need is a few more inches between the sensor and the 90.
Great. Thanks for the tip.

All responses most appreciated.
Winf
__________________
Winf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2016, 17:53   #12
Registered User
 
Winf's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Cairns
Boat: Southcoast 36
Posts: 113
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Ok so is there much real world difference between Jabsco and Whale?

Whale 320 vs Jabsco 50880 diaphragm?

Jabsco is slightly cheaper with slightly less flow.

More interested in experiences with reliability.

Winf
__________________
Winf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 08:51   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Oyster 66
Posts: 973
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrwakefield View Post
Winf,

This is a correction regarding my previous post.

I mistakenly thought the Whale pumps I was referring to were the IC pumps. I was incorrect. Before posting I Googled 'Whale Bilge IC' and saw images of the pumps I used. However, now that I've had more coffee I realize my mistake.

The pumps I referred to in my response, above, are the Whale Supersub [very low profile] pumps.

I do intend to use the IC pumps in my shower sumps as stated, but do not yet have any first hand experience with them. [Most likely the Orca 1300 model.]

I also use a Whale 320 Gulper to empty the Lavac head and empty the holding tank, and that works very well.

I apologize for my confusion, and hope I didn't cause you any...

Cheers!

Bill
I don't think this is a suitable pump for (or near) continuous duty, notwithstanding the fact it has performed so well. When searching for a small continuous duty pump I was told by Whale that they didn't recommend any of their pumps for such use.
__________________
poiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2016, 09:43   #14
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,737
Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winf View Post
Ok, tired of dodgy impeller bilge pumps and want to upgrade to something robust and reliable.

Looking at the Whale range. Anyone with experience with the Whale IC range of pumps? Like the simplicity of the system, just not sure about the reliability of the electronic wizardry.

In the bilge, looking at the Bilge IC unit. Alternative to this would be a Whale Gulper 220 rigged up to a standard float switch arrangement.

In the shower/sink sump, looking at installing a Whale Grey IC to eliminate the wet sump and having to clean up gross soapy scum. Not sure what the alternative to the auto switching manifold is but it needs to eliminate the wet sump arrangement.

Cost of the IC is high but prepared to pay for quality, reliable equipment.

Thanks for any comments.

Winf
I have two of these, one in main bilge and one in engine room bilge, as maintenance pumps.

They are optimistically rated at 1100 gallons per hour, which is not enough to control even very slight flooding, but quite adequate for maintenance. I am very pleased with them; they have been bullet-proof for several years by now. Only complaint is that they have quite a fine mesh on the intake which clogs very easily.


For actual pumping, I have two big Rule 4000 pumps mounted higher (so they're not activated unless there's flooding), controlled by an Ultra Junior float switch. The same switch activates my bilge alarm. These are (also optimistically) rated at 4000 gallons per hour each, and the two of them together should be able to control a moderate leak. If I were doing it again, however, I would not choose the Rule pumps; rather one of the new "Bilge Predators", which are macerating and very heavy duty. Maceration is important if you're doing any serious dewatering because of the debris which always appears in a flooding situation.

If you want to keep water out of your boat in a real emergency, then besides that, you need a real dewatering pump. This does not need to actually be installed; you can use a roll-up fabric fire hose for the discharge. The only question is how to power it -- there is not an obvious good choice for that. You can buy them with petrol/gasoline engines (PITA to store; carbs gum up; will it start?), diesel (heavy, expensive, will it start?), or AC power (my choice, because I have a high mounted heavy duty generator).
__________________

__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-ętre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More People On More Boats More Often thekiwi Commercial Posts 0 11-06-2014 19:43
Bilge Pumps vs Bilge Pumps RoJack1 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 12 30-05-2010 20:01
Using Single Diaphram Pumps as Bilge Pumps jlogan Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 12 29-09-2009 09:05
More Pics, More Blog Entries, and 'Communications in the Bahamas' Labatt Atlantic & the Caribbean 5 02-05-2009 11:08



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:06.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.