Originally Posted by Bergovoy
and I am not chemist but if you neutralize hcl arent you also nuetralizing the seawater? or in essence altering it from where nature has set it at currently? ... no whether or noth thier regulations
are extreme or not enuf is not the intent of my point, just that we are making a difference and it would behoove us and the planet to fugure out the best way to minimize that affect...
I am a chemist.
I think we share the the same viewpoint here, and I am not picking on, or debating, you. I am just injecting some facts and trying to narrow the discussion to the application of dilute HCl (muratic acid) in marine
heads. My apologies if these efforts seem targeted at you - they are not.
Seawater contains several buffer systems in large quantities. Buffer systems are not a zero-sum game
where they are depleted by addition of an acid (or base). They are in equilibrium and are renewable.
So, the addition of quite a large amount of muratic acid (dilute HCl) will NOT make a difference and there is no need to worry about minimizing its effects.
Really. There isn't enough muratic acid available in all the hardware
stores in all the world to make a measurable difference.
This isn't a political or moral belief - it is a fact.
And this reasoning does not
apply to other chemical compounds - thus the reason I am narrowly defining muratic acid usage here.
Originally Posted by barnakiel
"The United States Environmental Protection Agency
rates and regulates hydrochloric acid as a toxic substance
end of quote
I understand your reasoning, but if we were to think along your lines then a single car has zero effect on environment
, a single debtor has zero effect on a county's economical standing and a single citizen has zero effect on vote's outcome.
And yet, the sum of all our actions matters. Or does it not?
Yes, by definition muratic acid is a strong acid - which is a chemical distinction - not necessarily a quantitative qualifier (there is a chemical distinction between strong and weak acids that has little to do with their environmental effects). As such, it falls under the EPA auspices to categorize it - as do many, many chemical compounds.
And yes, the EPA regulates it as a corrosive material. It also regulates acetic acid under the same category and with the same cautions.
Acetic acid is vinegar.
The particular EPA categorical classification you site is unrelated to any environmental effects outside those immediate to handling the substance in close quarters, or in combination with other chemical compounds.
Have you ever worried about the EPA's warning regarding the gut full of muratic acid you carry around with you 24/7? It is far more concentrated than what you can buy in a hardware
In the case of muratic acid, our actions do not matter. And your line of reasoning regarding the cumulative effects of automobiles, debtors and voting citizens is a red herring. It is not the same reasoning as I am using. Of course the cumulative effect of single instances that do change the balance of a system matter. Automobiles, debtors and voting citizens fall in that category. Dilute hydrochloric acid does not.
Really. Dump the entire world's current
supply of muratic acid (dilute HCl) into the oceans right now and you won't achieve a measurable difference. Do this once/week and you still won't see a difference.
I am not being pedantic or political or anything else here. As a chemist, I feel some responsibility to educate a public that has too many conflicting opinions from people with political (or other) agendas. And again, I am talking strictly about muratic acid here, and not any other chemical compound.
So, let's get back on topic. If you still feel strongly about not using muratic acid, simply put in new plumbing
and routinely use a cup a vinegar. Never deviate from the routine, because once the deposits form, vinegar will quickly become useless for dissolving them.
If your plumbing
has deposits you can use muratic acid to dissolve them. Even then, it will probably take a few applications.
If you have plumbing deposits and you still feel you are risking the health
of the world's oceans, simply remove the hoses and bang them against a piling. Keep in mind the deposits flinging out of your hose and into the water
are also strictly regulated by the EPA as environmental pollutants. They are part of the reason you need that holding tank
. By the way, they are also regulated as pollutants on land and in landfills.
Just for context, here are some foods containing muratic acid:
- Dairy-based drinks, flavoured and/or fermented (e.g., chocolate milk, cocoa, eggnog, drinking yoghurt, whey-based drinks)
- Condensed milk and analogues (plain)
- Milk powder and cream powder and powder analogues (plain)
- Unripened cheese
- Ripened cheese
- Processed cheese
- Cheese analogues
- Dairy-based desserts (e.g., pudding, fruit or flavoured yoghurt)
- Edible ices, including sherbet and sorbet
- Processed fruit
- Breakfast cereals, including rolled oats
- Pre-cooked pastas and noodles and like products
- Cereal and starch based desserts (e.g., rice pudding, tapioca pudding)
- Batters (e.g., for breading or batters for fish
- Pre-cooked or processed rice products, including rice cakes (Oriental type only)
- Processed meat, poultry, and game
products in whole pieces or cuts
- Egg-based desserts (e.g., custard)
- Table-top sweeteners, including those containing high-intensity sweeteners
- Seasonings and condiments
- Soups and broths
- Sauces and like products
- Water-based flavoured drinks, including "sport," "energy," or "electrolyte" drinks and particulated drinks
and malt beverages
- Distilled spirituous beverages containing more than 15% alcohol