Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-02-2007, 05:02   #1
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
3-way (Gas & Electric) Portable Fridge Freezer

Just been reading the threads about Fridges on boats, lots of info - but apparently no Diesal powered fridges .........unsurprisingly their does not appear to be a magic solution when it comes to lots of cold at low power.

Longterm I may well want to go down the road of building in a Custom Fridge and giving serious thought to how to power one to be as effiiecent as possible, but for the next few years I do not really need a Fridge. Have always managed with just a cooler.

But a Fridge would be "nice"

Was looking at something like these........albeit not cheap at up to around 425.


Dometic Electrolux RC1180 Camping Portable Fridge Freezer supplied by OBriens Camping. Dometic Electrolux RC 1180 powered by gas mains and 12v.

Running on Gas appears attractive to me, I understand that they like to be on a level surface which can be a bit of a problem when underway on a Mono, but as I would envisage it being used most when moored (and therefore levelish) I think for my immediate plans this is something I could live with - using it as just a cooler when underway would be ok for me. I am not too worried about the cost of Gas. An ability to make ice sounds kinda cool as well Of course sometimes I would be in a Marina so being able to also use Electrickery would save the Gas.

Anyone used a Portable Fridge on Gas onboard?? and do I "Just" hook up a long pipe / hose onto the unit from a gas bottle / gas locker??

Or am I missing something obvious??
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2007, 05:21   #2
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
I had a bar fridge style front opening gas /electric on my last cat.


Dometic Electrolux RM7405L 3-way Motorhome Fridge supplied by OBriens camping. RM 7405 7405L Motorhome Fridges 97 Litre powered by gas mains and 12v.


I got it second hand for $120AUD. or 48 pound

I glued in a peice of white laminex over the crappy timber look stuff on the door and it worked a treat.

In anything up to about 30oC it was good, kept beer cold and made ice for the rum, but over 30o it started to suffer.

I did have to vent it as the flame for the gas while only lighter size makes a bit of heat so I had a computer fan sucking in at the bottom and one sucking out at the top. These use no power and are almost free .

I just used a copper pipe and fitting's from fridge to gas locker, and a s/s braid covered gas line to reg.

This worked for years trouble free in OZ, but once I filled up with gas overseas, after waiting many days for a refill, the fridge never worked again, and I spent many hour's trying to sort it out.

The 12 volt working's are very inneficient, and did not work on mine anyway.

Dave
__________________

__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2007, 05:41   #3
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
I saw those Not sure where I could fit it in though! apart from in the Forepeak, but this is also the Head - not so sure about keeping the Fridge in the Toilet???...........

Although I am fairly relaxed about using gas onboard (at least just the idea does not give me the vapours ) , I am not so sure about buying secondhand.......that is one for further thought.

The attraction of the Portable is "ease of plumbing in", plus I do not want to start making major changes and building a Fridge until I decide from my own experiance exactly what I need........besides, I do have a longggggg list of other jobs to do before I get cold beer
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2007, 05:51   #4
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Get your priority's right.

Cold beer first I say, and anyway I thought you drank it warm over there.

Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2007, 07:18   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Boat: 1973 Morgan 36T
Posts: 808
Images: 17
Quote:
but apparently no Diesal powered fridges
Check this out. http://www.dometic.com/templates/Product,1426,2120.aspx

It runs on Kerosene. It will probably run on Diesal.
__________________
Morgan Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2007, 07:54   #6
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
When I was Googling yesterday I came accross Kerozene powered fridges, but those I found did look a bit more home built than your link........

I was half joking about Diesal cos' I have 50 odd gallons of Diesal fuel onboard already - whether one of these could be converted to run on Diesal is beyond my technical ability (not hard that!), but I am guessing even if possible the downside would be the smell of burning Diesal......... instead of Kerosene
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2007, 08:12   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Boat: 1973 Morgan 36T
Posts: 808
Images: 17
David
Kerosene refrigerators are basicly the same as a lantern. They have a wick. You could easily make a test get a kerosene lamp fill it with Diesal and see how it burns and smells compared to kerosene.

Paul
__________________
Morgan Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2007, 09:29   #8
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
That sounds a suspicously simple idea........

But I have a very strange feeling that their is going to be a downside to a diesel powered fridge (I am betting on the smell ), otherwise wouldn't everyone be doing it?

Maybe I could cut the Diesel with something pleasant smelling. I like the smell of Jet Fuel, but Lavender may be safer........especially bearing in mind I smoke like a chimney

(BTW if no one hears from me for a while next week it isn't cos' I was experimenting with a Diesel and Jet Fuel powered Fridge - I am off working "on site" ).
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2007, 09:57   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
mikereed100's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Santa Barbara
Boat: 46' custom cat
Posts: 1,571
Images: 2
I lived in the desert for 8 years with a propane/dc powered fridge which worked great until the temp got up over 100f (37C) at which point the freezer still froze but the refer got pretty warm. I had to put my beers in the freezer in the morning and remember to drink them all when I got home from work lest they explode.
The beauty of these units is they have no moving parts or noise. The downside is that as I recall you can't use them at an angle greater than about 5 degrees or you can damage the cooling unit. (I think the fix was to turn them upside down). I used to know why and how they worked but that knowledge has expired (48 hour limit). I am considering one for my cat but I don't think it would be a good option for a mono even at anchor as a wake or unsteady crew could put you over the 5 degree limit and mess you up.

Mike
__________________
mikereed100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2007, 13:32   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Mike, Yes you are right. The same goes for a household fridge compressor too.

Burning diesel just isn't that easy. Diesel has to be preheated or atomized first else it just won't burn well or very hot. It would smoke pretty bad. The only diesel power refrigerators are the engine driven compressors that run off the main engine. They used to work OK. Crosby made them for a long time. They use a holding plate and you run them for about 45 minutes at a time. You might find a used one someone is getting rid of. They did work but are no longer popular at all. That means they might fit your budget.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2007, 23:50   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
Yeah I second what Paul said. Diesel smokes bad. Real bad and the smoke is very heavy carbon witch cokes up the insides real quick and the wick does not burn very well. I have tried running a lantern on Diesel.
The "3 way" fridges and freezers work very well in a level environment. They will freeze with ease. BUT, they are very energy hungry. My unit uses 17A on 12V DC and the big problem with that is it doesn't cycle. It just draws power all the time. AC is the same. With Gas, it is at a rate of 330g/24hrs, so that isn't altogether bad. But it does add up and we find that when sailing, the flame often goes out. Not sure if it is heal or wind, but it is something we check when we end the day. If we are motoring, we keep it on 230V, We seldom use the DC as it is simply easier to use 230 and have it already switched correctly for shore power so we don't forget.
But the really big draw back is cost. This thing cost me NZ$2200
I also have a small 12V compressor fridge and find that far more economical to run. It takes only 6A/12V and cycles, so it is not drawing 6A continuosly. This unit is about NZ$1000. but you need to build a fridge/freezer box for it.
Then we needed more freezer space. So this time we simply bought a cheap 230V upright freezer. This has been the best. Cheap and very efficient to run. Even though it is a domestic freezer, it is SST. It has run full time flawlessly for 2.5yrs so far and only cost me $199. We went verticle because of room at the time, but at some time I will build in a horizotal freezer so as energy is not wasted when you open the door. I will never buy another "marine" unit again.
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2007, 02:02   #12
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler
The "3 way" fridges and freezers work very well in a level environment. They will freeze with ease. BUT, they are very energy hungry. My unit uses 17A on 12V DC and the big problem with that is it doesn't cycle. It just draws power all the time. AC is the same. With Gas, it is at a rate of 330g/24hrs, so that isn't altogether bad. But it does add up and we find that when sailing, the flame often goes out. Not sure if it is heal or wind, but it is something we check when we end the day. If we are motoring, we keep it on 230V, We seldom use the DC as it is simply easier to use 230 and have it already switched correctly for shore power so we don't forget. But the really big draw back is cost. This thing cost me NZ$2200
So apart from a large initial cost and then expensive running costs, and probably not useable 24/7 when underway it sounds good Actually these do sound good enough for my purposes, short term, especially as I could use a portable elsewhere.

Quote:
I also have a small 12V compressor fridge and find that far more economical to run. It takes only 6A/12V and cycles, so it is not drawing 6A continuosly. This unit is about NZ$1000. but you need to build a fridge/freezer box for it.
Building a fridge / freezer is no doubt the long term solution - but as I indicated earlier I do not want to go there at this point.

Quote:
Then we needed more freezer space. So this time we simply bought a cheap 230V upright freezer. This has been the best. Cheap and very efficient to run. Even though it is a domestic freezer, it is SST. It has run full time flawlessly for 2.5yrs so far and only cost me $199. We went verticle because of room at the time, but at some time I will build in a horizotal freezer so as energy is not wasted when you open the door. I will never buy another "marine" unit again.
One of the limitations of a 30 foot boat is I beleive going to be no domestic upright Freezer. Unless I tow it in the Dinghy
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2007, 02:10   #13
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pblais
Mike, Yes you are right. The same goes for a household fridge compressor too.

Burning diesel just isn't that easy. Diesel has to be preheated or atomized first else it just won't burn well or very hot. It would smoke pretty bad. The only diesel power refrigerators are the engine driven compressors that run off the main engine. They used to work OK. Crosby made them for a long time. They use a holding plate and you run them for about 45 minutes at a time. You might find a used one someone is getting rid of. They did work but are no longer popular at all. That means they might fit your budget.
I am happy to put up with any lack of refrigeration capacity in exchange for not having to run the engine.

Although I probably should conduct my own Diesel experiments, I will trust folk that this is going to be a smelly solution at best. In any event I really do not want to go down the route of buying a Kerozene Fridge as part of an experiment, will put the 's towards a portable 3 way and accept the limitations of use on Perro, until such time as I get a built in custom ridge organised. Besides I can use the Portable elsewhere.

Cheers folks. Very useful to learn the limitations before shelling out notes........
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2007, 12:09   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
How about a small upright Feezer then? Ours is great.
When it comes to burning thr diesel, I don't think this is impossible. There are certainly deisel heaters out there that are identical to Kero heaters. It's just a case of finding out the difference and maybe addapting one for the other. Depends on how inventive and handy you are. It's something I woudl be happy to try if I needed, but that's just who I am.
Going back to the Gas, at 330g a day, that still gives you 27days of running from a 9Kg bottle. That's not bad.
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2007, 13:53   #15
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler
When it comes to burning thr diesel, I don't think this is impossible. There are certainly deisel heaters out there that are identical to Kero heaters. It's just a case of finding out the difference and maybe addapting one for the other. Depends on how inventive and handy you are. It's something I woudl be happy to try if I needed, but that's just who I am.
I had forgotten about diesal heaters - Eberschers I think (Sp??!!). But as I may have indictated earlier I am not exactly technically gifted , so don't put money on me understanding WTF I am looking at let alone coming up with a solution ......but it is something I shall nonetheless put on the list to enquire about how they operate as I am sure that they must have sorted out the smell problem.

Just occurred to me that Diesal Cookers are also made for boats, I recall that they have their own "characteristics" - but something I could look into.......


Quote:
Going back to the Gas, at 330g a day, that still gives you 27days of running from a 9Kg bottle. That's not bad.
Broadly what I was thinking. At the moment this would not be a problem, but no doubt "down the line", I would want to also save a few 's, plus not have the aggro of always needing gas.
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
freezer, refrigerator

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.