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Old 07-09-2015, 08:38   #226
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming View Post
Just some perspective from a newbie.

These threads are really helpful to getting a new dreamers thoughts headed in the right direction. Adequate knowledge, planning and experience all take the right mindset to learn. I don't mind if people bash on my questions. They get my thoughts turned to asking better questions.

Yes newbies should be encouraged and discouraged in equal measure. But the "not experienced enough" argument is pretty useless. One gains experience through self testing. But I will say when life is at stake the self test should come in baby steps.
A newbie? Really?

Yes. Listen to all the encouragement and discouragement, use ALL the info to grow, to visualise the common pitfalls and to keep the dream alive. Keep on moving.

Also. Sail, sail, sail, then sail some more. Living aboard is 'easy' but sailing the miles, even if they are 'easy' inshore miles, will always pose some challenges. One learns sailing by sailing (sic). Just like walking, biking and archery.

When/if big decisions come into play, it does take a leap of faith. Every first ocean crossing is a FIRST. And moving from a condo to a boat docked in the marina is a rite of passage too. One cannot rehearse them. Have faith, believe in sailing.

Great post newbie! May your sea dream be a great dream for a time and then may it become your reality.

Regards,
barnakiel
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:20   #227
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming View Post
Just some perspective from a newbie.

These threads are really helpful to getting a new dreamers thoughts headed in the right direction. Adequate knowledge, planning and experience all take the right mindset to learn. I don't mind if people bash on my questions. They get my thoughts turned to asking better questions.

Yes newbies should be encouraged and discouraged in equal measure. But the "not experienced enough" argument is pretty useless. One gains experience through self testing. But I will say when life is at stake the self test should come in baby steps.

Good post, especially the last part. The "go now" part falls apart, IMO, when someone buys a boat, without seeing it, arrives, and then leaves for a 1000+ mile trip, without having ever done it before in any boat, let alone the boat they just bought. Too far fetched you say? Actually, I know of it happening twice in the last few years, and in both cases, ended in disaster. It is all in the details, and a good dose of luck to those who don't at least go through some basic "baby steps".
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Old 07-09-2015, 10:38   #228
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
A newbie? Really?

Yes. Listen to all the encouragement and discouragement, use ALL the info to grow, to visualise the common pitfalls and to keep the dream alive. Keep on moving.

Also. Sail, sail, sail, then sail some more. Living aboard is 'easy' but sailing the miles, even if they are 'easy' inshore miles, will always pose some challenges. One learns sailing by sailing (sic). Just like walking, biking and archery.

When/if big decisions come into play, it does take a leap of faith. Every first ocean crossing is a FIRST. And moving from a condo to a boat docked in the marina is a rite of passage too. One cannot rehearse them. Have faith, believe in sailing.

Great post newbie! May your sea dream be a great dream for a time and then may it become your reality.

Regards,
barnakiel

Well said.


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Old 07-09-2015, 12:26   #229
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Good post, especially the last part. The "go now" part falls apart, IMO, when someone buys a boat, without seeing it, arrives, and then leaves for a 1000+ mile trip, without having ever done it before in any boat, let alone the boat they just bought. Too far fetched you say? Actually, I know of it happening twice in the last few years, and in both cases, ended in disaster. It is all in the details, and a good dose of luck to those who don't at least go through some basic "baby steps".

I expect, he who takes off on such a journey isn't listening to advice or recommendations of strangers.

During and since the development airplanes, how many stepped in and flew?

It is part of the reason our species spread across the globe.


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Old 07-09-2015, 12:42   #230
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pirate Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
I disagree. I do not think one should blanket encourage newbies.

I would feel really badly if as the result of my encouragement, someone came to grief; hence, I edit what I write with that sense of responsibility in mind.

If, as some newbies do, a person seems to underestimate what's ahead, then I more or less feel obliged to state some of the more obvious complications.

To me, it would be irresponsible to encourage an inexperienced person to take an inadequately prepared, or basically inadequate (like a day sailor) boat to sea.

Ann
Hi Ann..
Its rare I disagree with you.. in fact I think this is a first..
Its one thing to encourage a newbie.. a good thing I feel..
However if that newbie then.. after that one post.. buys a boat and heads across the Pacific..???
Will I feel guilty about the due process of Darwin's Law..
No way.. we have prime examples of self proclaimed experts who've done the same..
Pride cometh before the Fall.. with Stupidity leading the way..

Buga.. just broke my nose..
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Old 07-09-2015, 15:21   #231
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Boatie,

You should not feel guilty for someone else's stupidity. Quite right.

And, generally, I do believe in encouraging people to follow their dreams, and you'll see those posts on this forum.

Where I draw the line is when it seems blatantly obvious to me that someone is likely sailing into danger. At that point, I feel I need to speak up. Others' mileage may vary.

Ann
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Old 08-09-2015, 10:47   #232
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Being a newbie myself and in the learning process of sailing this was a pretty good read. I think a lot of people get different ideas in there head and come from all sorts of backgrounds.
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Old 08-09-2015, 11:16   #233
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Buga.. just broke my nose..
er...................
should I ask?
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Old 08-09-2015, 11:29   #234
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Boatie,

You should not feel guilty for someone else's stupidity. Quite right.

And, generally, I do believe in encouraging people to follow their dreams, and you'll see those posts on this forum.

Where I draw the line is when it seems blatantly obvious to me that someone is likely sailing into danger. At that point, I feel I need to speak up. Others' mileage may vary.

Ann
We often agree. I hope you are including financial danger. We see a bunch of that. I have a dollar in the bank an plan on rebuilding a salvage.
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Old 08-09-2015, 11:36   #235
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

People will do what they want.
Just tell the facts and the difficulties and leave them to it. Even if a person was told that their project was difficult, nay almost impossible, it would be seen as a challenge or translated into encouragement.

Just need to be ourselves.

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Old 08-09-2015, 11:46   #236
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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People will do what they want.
Just tell the facts and the difficulties and leave them to it. Even if a person was told that their project was difficult, nay almost impossible, it would be seen as a challenge or translated into encouragement.

Just need to be ourselves.

Weavis.

You are probably right. Unfortunate.
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Old 08-09-2015, 13:10   #237
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

These are my initial responses from cruisers forumn members..... the boat you want is;
Too big,
Too expensive,
Too complicated,
Your too inexperienced.

I "just went" and hell, I made it to colombia.

I say just go, IF the boat is sea worthy.

Sent from my SM-T700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 08-09-2015, 14:22   #238
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

Web forums such as CF can be a valuable resource for information. Most may be reliable, but who knows the qualifications of the people offering advice? Some you can tell... others maybe not so.

Presumably people who would consider going to sea... even leaving a dock... are mature and smart enough to act prudently, do their due diligence, learn, practice, prepare and so forth and understand the risks and so on.

Someone who asks for an opinion to another sailor... Am I ready to go? ... is not ready to go! And those who take it upon themselves to interfere may be acting like a good Samaritan, a concerned person and so on... but really this is pretty insane.

There is no test to pass... and no one is qualified to offer this advice. If you want to kill yourself... go for it... No one tells people not to climb Mt Everest or not to jump out of a plane. People take all manner of risks for all manner of reasons. Let them.

The only concern is when they endanger innocent people.. like the USCG personal who have to rescue these selfish people... at our expense to boot.

And this sort of behavior is narcissism at its worst.
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Old 08-09-2015, 14:27   #239
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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Boatie,

You should not feel guilty for someone else's stupidity. Quite right.

And, generally, I do believe in encouraging people to follow their dreams, and you'll see those posts on this forum.

Where I draw the line is when it seems blatantly obvious to me that someone is likely sailing into danger. At that point, I feel I need to speak up. Others' mileage may vary.

Ann

I have to disagree with you. Adults should know the risks and if they are stupid enough to kill themselves... let them do it. But PLEASE leave innocent people out of your insanity and foolish decisions and don't expect them to save your ass when you get in trouble and risk their lives.

Dreams ARE nonsense... goals are fine. Everyone should want to achieve something... better themselves. Goals need to be realistic and people who have them should be encouraged and supported in many ways. That's it.
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Old 08-09-2015, 18:26   #240
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Re: When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

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We often have debates about whether we as a general group are too encouraging to newbies with a dream. Most should go and do it, but some should never go to sea.

Can we tell the difference on a forum?

What are our responsibilities as a community?

Here's a cautionary tale from someone who tried to dissuade a dock-mate. He went anyways and put himself and his crew at risk. And learned nothing.
To the OP's Q. This forum has no responsibility to protect people from their dreams. I am fairly new to this forum as far as posting opinions but they are opinions. Few are professionals. I have been a professional rescuer in the high alpine environment. I have performed many rescues and seen several die, not necessarily perusing a dream but just trying to have a good time at ski areas in Colorado. Skiing is inherently dangerous, I don't recommend it but I have never felt guilty when an individual kills themself in pursuit of a life wish(not death wish). No one can tell them they shouldn't live the way they want. This is not a government. No one would ask for opinions if they had the constitution to live this life, which I have just begun and never ask for another's opinion. No regrets after one week except that the things I brought in my Subaru Outback won't fit on the boat.
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