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Old 25-04-2011, 21:10   #211
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post

Funny thing is, I actually have kept count of how many equal length or larger Hunters I have passed while sailing in the last 4 years on the Chesapeake in range of conditions. 11 and counting. I have been passed once, by an H42. Granted, sailing skill makes a huge difference, and many people on the Bay buy a Hunter as their first boat....

That said, i'd pick a Catalina if I had the money for a new boat, but not enough for a new morris, hinckley, etc. I think they look better, sail better (perhaps), and generally have more positive owners feedback than Hunters.
That's interesting. According to our PHRF numbers, the H42 is one of the slowest H hulls.
To you last point about owner feedback being better for C than H, please provide your source(s) for that statement. Obviously, the "I think they look better and sail better" is an opinion but that last phrase regarding feedback indicates some objective basis I'd like to see.
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Old 25-04-2011, 21:12   #212
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Picking one area of a boats construction is not the be all of a yacht. To get the same style/strength of build in a new boat today would cost how much?? It is very hard to convince some that todays construction design + materials can give you the same level of performance strength longevity etc of old designs. Weight in itself introduces increased stresses which in turn requires increased structual strength and so it goes on.
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Old 26-04-2011, 04:49   #213
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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................. but I am a sucker for aesthetically pleasing boats even at the detriment of interior space.

I don't understand this "point". The interior on my Hunter is very pleasing and open! Anyone who doesn't like the interior of a Hunter is just someone who has some "issue". The exterior is clean and uncluttered, side decks wide and clear, cockpit huge and comfortable, etc.

Maybe you are talking about lots of wood trim. Everyone loves that, especially on someone else's boat that they don't have to maintain! I'm not going to miss the time it lot to sand and stain my toe rails on my last boat (and the clean up on the deck after the can of stain got knocked over).
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Old 26-04-2011, 06:35   #214
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

While I agree with you Don I do think many deliberately buy boats needing constant work to give themselves something to do in between cruising. In fact working on the boat in some cases is all they really want the boat for and have very little interest in sailing as such. When looking at most modern boats the engine is not buried making service difficult nor a deep bilge to drop tools etc in to and then spend another hour fishing them out. Lots of improvements to make life more enjoyable while on board.
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Old 26-04-2011, 20:09   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas

I don't understand this "point". The interior on my Hunter is very pleasing and open! Anyone who doesn't like the interior of a Hunter is just someone who has some "issue". The exterior is clean and uncluttered, side decks wide and clear, cockpit huge and comfortable, etc.

Maybe you are talking about lots of wood trim. Everyone loves that, especially on someone else's boat that they don't have to maintain! I'm not going to miss the time it lot to sand and stain my toe rails on my last boat (and the clean up on the deck after the can of stain got knocked over).


Well, I hear you on interiors. Hunters have lovely interiors. However, it often seems to me that over the past decade they went out of their way to design rather homely exterior lines on many of their models. It's tough in my mind to argue that Catalinas and Beneteaus didn't do a better job molding more balanced lines around their interiors. One friend of mine made the analogy to the Pontiac Aztec for some Hunter models--- undoubtedly functional, but....

Wood trim. Well I would happily leave that alone. However, for the price difference between my boat and a newer Hunter I could hire someone for life to keep up with the varnish.


now that I think of it, maybe I really have it all wrong. I am in the boat that other people sail by and compliment, but can't see for myself until I get in the dinghy and look back. meanwhile, I am the one staring at all of the other boats from my "hot tub-less" boat.

i do have to say, the latest Hunter line is MUCH improved from an exterior perspective, so I have to give credit where due....
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Old 26-04-2011, 20:19   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion
That's interesting. According to our PHRF numbers, the H42 is one of the slowest H hulls.


MY REPLY:
False, unless your fleet is truly aberrant from national averages. Google/ look at US Sailing PHRF averages. H42 averages 102. Faster than all smaller models than the 386, and faster than 426, 430, 44, 45.5, and 466.

I am sorry I have no metrics from any hard data on owner feedback, but I have heard anecdotally of at least 6 local Hunter owners who became quite unhappy with build quality issues after about 4-5 years, and none from the other builders. Perhaps coincidental, but mirrors what I have read in many online threads.
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Old 27-04-2011, 17:17   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73
Regarding Hunters (and some other price point production boats)....
I don't like them, but I am a sucker for aesthetically pleasing boats even at the detriment of interior space. If I become a liveaboard I will likely change my tune quickly.
However, I have to wonder about structural durability compared to boats like my Allied Luders, or my family's Hinckley B40. Both boats are over 45 years old. The hull/deck joints on both boats are glassed together on an inward 6-8 inch flange and have not/cannot leak, flex, come apart. All bulkheads and furniture are glassed into the hull completely. Not even a peep/flex/groan from below even when bashing to windward in the heavy stuff. Yes, I know they are heavy and overbuilt, and modified full keels have as many drawbacks as benefits, but tough to argue with the test of time (and of one's eye when you look back at the boat from the dinghy).

Funny thing is, I actually have kept count of how many equal length or larger Hunters I have passed while sailing in the last 4 years on the Chesapeake in range of conditions. 11 and counting. I have been passed once, by an H42. Granted, sailing skill makes a huge difference, and many people on the Bay buy a Hunter as their first boat....

That said, i'd pick a Catalina if I had the money for a new boat, but not enough for a new morris, hinckley, etc. I think they look better, sail better (perhaps), and generally have more positive owners feedback than Hunters.
I love wood boats like Morris too but cant imagine owning one. They just don't fit my lifestyle. Too much upkeep & not enough hull around me. Just like a blue hull- I want one the day I can afford to keep it up.

The thick hull was the question when we were buying our boat as well as the B&R rig. We liked the looks of the Hunter but wanted to go offshore. It is my husband's 4th boat (his first -with 30+ yrs. of sailing- was a Formosa 51) He had a friend who did deliveries all over the world who told us that new technology (type of materials etc) makes the new boats stronger & faster. He compared the B&R rig to a 3 legged stool- very stable & that lack of tuning caused mast problems not the type. So we bought our Hunter & still love it. We aren't racing people so if you passed us it's because we weren't competing! 

Boats are like cars-everybody has their likes & that's why they build so many. What is aesthetically pleasing to one may not be to others. And I'm glad because it makes the bay more interesting!!
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Old 27-04-2011, 18:37   #218
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post

I am sorry I have no metrics from any hard data on owner feedback, but I have heard anecdotally of at least 6 local Hunter owners who became quite unhappy with build quality issues after about 4-5 years, and none from the other builders. Perhaps coincidental, but mirrors what I have read in many online threads.
Anecdotal stories like this are generally not worth much. Can we be expected to believe that no one ever complained about anything on any other boat? Especially an older boat?

I find these declarative statements criticizing an entire boat manufacturing brand based on second hand stories irresponsible.
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Old 27-04-2011, 18:42   #219
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pirate Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

ROFL.... unhappy with build quality after 4 or 5yrs.... guess they thought Hunters were self maintaining...
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Old 27-04-2011, 19:57   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Anecdotal stories like this are generally not worth much. Can we be expected to believe that no one ever complained about anything on any other boat? Especially an older boat?

I find these declarative statements criticizing an entire boat manufacturing brand based on second hand stories irresponsible.


MY REPLY:

If anectodes are not worth much, then this forum is not worth much either. In my medical practice, I know to look in journals for hard evidence to guide my decision making, but to read "irresponsible" forums like newspapers and the internet to know what people are thinking, right or wrong.
This is just a forum for opinions, correct? I've been on it for a while, and haven't found most posts to be burdened by the need to back up what they claim in hard data. On the contrary, declarative statements like yours and mine are necessary for people reading to hear balanced opinions.




I can't help but point out the irony in your bashing of my post regarding boat aesthetics, given the car in your avatar. Don't you know that a Toyota or Honda minivan is far more comfortable, efficient, and spacious than your classic convertible?
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Old 27-04-2011, 20:12   #221
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
Anecdotal stories like this are generally not worth much. Can we be expected to believe that no one ever complained about anything on any other boat? Especially an older boat?

I find these declarative statements criticizing an entire boat manufacturing brand based on second hand stories irresponsible.
Agreed. Irresponsible and mean-spirited. (Or perhaps just adolescent.)
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Old 28-04-2011, 04:47   #222
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
Anecdotal stories like this are generally not worth much. Can we be expected to believe that no one ever complained about anything on any other boat? Especially an older boat?

I find these declarative statements criticizing an entire boat manufacturing brand based on second hand stories irresponsible.
It was because of all the postings of these "statements" over the years that led me to start this thread. And between it and some other research I got past them and moved up to my Hunter.

Funny that there is enough passion on both sides of the Hunter quality that the thread dies and comes back. Sometimes the new posting is pro and sometimes con.

If any haters want to experience some comfort you are welcome to come for a ride with me.
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Old 29-04-2011, 20:34   #223
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

We love our Hunter. 1999 380. It is what it is. My husband loves sailing. We both have careers, children and the activities and sports that come along with them, cars (older), a house (smaller), college to save for, etc....and we are not independently wealthy nor members of the "lucky sperm club", nor are we "purist" that must live off the wild, etc. My husband likes to sail; we want to do some weekend "things" with the children whereby they can bring friends along and not be too bored....enter the Hunter. The children and I have "boatovers" at the dock, and the AC, satellite, stove, oven, "party grill", etc make it all that more comfortable. It's roomy, and we love playing board games. Our children don't hang out at the mall too much - they go to the boat (and ride ponies). Our "non seaworthy" boat has made it to the Keys, and we fly down and stay on our "floating RV" - in comfort. I actually love the shower.

In short, I have no desire to ever "cruise" - I love land, and I enjoy our boat. My husband is currently "bringing her home" to the Chesapeake Bay - offshore and ICW; took a BASHING today (on the ICW, not off shore) and is drinking on the boat, watching NCIS, right now. Plug it in, hit the AC and flat panel swivel TV, pull up activecaptain and plan the next day....I am proud that he can take the time, and we can afford the Hunter, to actually do something he loves rather than stay at home and focus and pine over the boat he would LOVE to have yet can never afford - kind of like the dog that chases the car that he knows he will never catch. Time wise (are we really going to "cruise" on it? I think NOT) and money wise (um, we have other bills to pay and the boat ain't at the top of the totem pole), a Hunter fits the bill for what we want....a Hunter is a great "weekend warrior" for the money....I really don't care what other people say about it; it works for us and that's all that matters to me, and no apologies for that.

Looking forward to 2 day sailing trips in comfort to break up the "daily grind" of life!
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Old 09-05-2011, 15:53   #224
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

Well have only had my "new" Hunter 410 out 1 time. But one thing I can say is that regardless what some have posted about Hunter's being sailing dogs our 410 is FAST! My older Cal-39 with a much higher sail area/displacement ratio (not even counting the 130% genny) that was pretty fast for a crusier its' size would have been watching the stern of Rubber Ducky as it left us behind!

Maybe the problem isn't with Hunter as a whole, but with just certain models and sizes that have caused the general Hunter Hate!

I'll post more later in the year for those that read the thread as research.
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Old 09-05-2011, 16:46   #225
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Re: Sudden Attraction to Hunters

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.

Maybe the problem isn't with Hunter as a whole, but with just certain models and sizes that have caused the general Hunter Hate!

I'll post more later in the year for those that read the thread as research.

I suspect it has nothing to do with Hunters at all but all about some people thinking they sound authoritative criticizing somebody's boat. If you notice, it's almost always the same people.
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