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Old 03-05-2013, 21:42   #31
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Any anchor-nanny aps that can send a text?
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Old 03-05-2013, 22:14   #32
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Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

10ft of chain is way too little for a 30-40ft boat. Plus a Fortress, good for specific conditions and doesn't reset well. A Rocna probably would have done the job. With a Rocna, setting it at full reverse at least you know the thing is dug in deep.
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Old 03-05-2013, 22:32   #33
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Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

Good on you for your confession and sharing it with others. All of us have had embarrassing anchoring episodes and I certainly am no different.

I am a great believer in all chain rode (and a working windlass) as others have commented. I have used a Fortress in the past as a kedge and/or a secondary anchor and have been surprised by its very poor performance. My experience suggests this type of anchor needs a lot of chain to work properly. Every time I used it and it failed was also with a short (10 foot) shot of chain and rope rode. Failed every time.

Now I have one boat length of 1/2 chain and line rode on the sucker to use in extremis. I hope it works but I still don't have a lot of confidence.

I have always had good to great results with all chain rode on CQRs (good) and my new Spade (great so far).

Cheers.

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Old 04-05-2013, 01:25   #34
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Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

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Originally Posted by Dhillen View Post
Good on you for your confession and sharing it with others. All of us have had embarrassing anchoring episodes and I certainly am no different.

I am a great believer in all chain rode (and a working windlass) as others have commented. I have used a Fortress in the past as a kedge and/or a secondary anchor and have been surprised by its very poor performance. My experience suggests this type of anchor needs a lot of chain to work properly. Every time I used it and it failed was also with a short (10 foot) shot of chain and rope rode. Failed every time.

Now I have one boat length of 1/2 chain and line rode on the sucker to use in extremis. I hope it works but I still don't have a lot of confidence.

I have always had good to great results with all chain rode on CQRs (good) and my new Spade (great so far).

Cheers.

Dhillen
I agree completely. My big CQR on all chain with better than 5:1 has been flawless. My Fortress as a stern anchor and 100' of chain and 7:1 has also been flawless. We've had 30+ knots on this setup and haven't dragged an inch.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:33   #35
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Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

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Originally Posted by jacob30 View Post
It is a Guardian not the Fortress sorry for the wrong model reference (same company). They look very similar having owned previous Fortress anchors. What is the design difference? ...
Fortress “FX” vs Guardian “G”:

Fortress is anodized, which is a chemically bonded coating. This gives the Fortress Anchor greater corrosion resistance and a more attractive appearance.
Guardian anchors are not anodized.

Fortress anchors have more precision machining done to the shank and flukes, so they are sharper and better able to penetrate the sea bottom deeper, and thus provide more holding power.

Fortress anchors have two adjustable angles: 32° and 45° for soft mud.
Guardian has just the 32° angle.

Fortress anchors have a Lifetime Parts Replacement Warranty. Guardian anchors have a One Year Parts Replacement Warranty.

The Guardian uses slightly smaller extrusion profiles than the equivalent Fortress.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:14   #36
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Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

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Originally Posted by jacob30 View Post
Yes thanks for all the feedback. As to your point I should have used more reverse and it is standard procedure from here on out.
Full reverse on a nylon rode is probably equivalent to ~10kts of wind due to the stretch preventing the anchor from seeing the full load. One of the drawbacks of nylon, I guess. I think you just had an unfortunate day and did not really do anything "wrong".

My guess is that all of the "experts" chiming in here about how bad you were to use a rope rode and Fortress anchor have never been in the Chesapeake before. They certainly seemed to miss the point that you were simply stepping ashore for a couple of hours and not settling in for a month. Your secondary rode and anchor setup that you used is the primary setup on over half the boats in the Chesapeake. And it is a reasonable set of gear for most of that area.

As long as you stay away from the dreaded Chesapeake porcupine fish...

Mark
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:25   #37
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Thank you
It is a brave man who will admit failure. Sorry about the how your fellow sailors pile on.

I used to use the number reported on the depth gauge to calculate the scope for anchoring. Roockie move. Forgot to add the 3 feet from the transducer to the surface plus the 5 feet from the surface to the anchor roller. I would plan for say 12 feet but should have calculated using 20 feet! (12+3+5) We dragged anchors all the time. Like I said rookie move.

Dan
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:53   #38
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Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

Most setting issues with Fortress anchors are because:

• The shank / fluke angle is set to 45° and the bottom is a hard soil. While the 45° angle will dramatically increase the holding power in a soft, silty, soupy type of mud, the anchor is likely to bounce along the bottom and not set in a harder soil at this angle. The 32° angle should always be used in these cases.

• The Mud Palms, which are included with all Fortress & Guardian anchors, are not installed. The Mud Palms lift the back end of the anchor up so that the flukes take a more aggressive angle into the sea bottom.

• Of course, falling back too quickly, using too short of a scope, and difficult bottoms like grass, weeds, and rocks can be problematic as well.

As I posted elsewhere, it is our firm contention that a properly set and well-buried Fortress anchor, with its two massive precision-machined and sharpened flukes, is not more likely to break free from a sea bottom during a wind or tidal shift than other anchor types, particularly those with far less surface / resistance area.

This contention is based upon the opinion of a 40+ year US Navy soil mechanics and anchor design expert, the 25 years of testimonials we have heard from Fortress owners all over the world, particularly from those in our hurricane region and "backyard" here in south Florida, as well as from independent test results.

One such independent test was done by the Sailing Foundation, in which they conducted straight, then 90°, and finally 180° pulls on the anchors tested. A 24 lb Fortress model FX-37 held to the maximum of 4,000+ lbs in the three pull directions, and no other much heavier steel anchor (i.e. Bruce, CQR, Davis, Delta, Luke, Max) was close.

All of that noted, we will readily acknowledge that sailboats oftentimes do not have the engine power to back down hard enough on the more massive Fortress anchor to bury it deeply, and therein lies a key issue in how it performs (or not) during off-center loads.

Here's an interesting comment from the Sailing Foundation test which illustrates this point:

The Fortress set so deep that the rode had to be hauled in to 1:1 and significant power applied to rode by the 83,000-pound tug to break it free. It is doubtful that a sailboat would have windlass power to break it out. Perhaps large primary winches or a rising tide might be adequate. However, it is also doubtful that a sailboat could have set the anchor that deep in less than a full hurricane.

Our company founder/owner, who was a lifelong and very adventurous boater with a 1,000 mile trip up the Amazon River, several Atlantic crossings, and a circumnavigation on his resume, said that "once an anchor breaks free from a sea bottom, it is oftentimes no longer an anchor....it is a massive ball with no remaining sharp edges in which to re-penetrate into the sea bottom".....and in this circumstance, re-setting is not possible.

This is one of the reasons why we note in our "Safe Anchoring Guide" literature that if you are expecting a wind or tidal shift, its a good idea to set two anchors for maximum safety.

Otherwise, a large heavy plow type might serve your sailboat better.

Safe anchoring,
Brian
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:58   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post

Full reverse on a nylon rode is probably equivalent to ~10kts of wind due to the stretch preventing the anchor from seeing the full load. One of the drawbacks of nylon, I guess. I think you just had an unfortunate day and did not really do anything "wrong".

My guess is that all of the "experts" chiming in here about how bad you were to use a rope rode and Fortress anchor have never been in the Chesapeake before. They certainly seemed to miss the point that you were simply stepping ashore for a couple of hours and not settling in for a month. Your secondary rode and anchor setup that you used is the primary setup on over half the boats in the Chesapeake. And it is a reasonable set of gear for most of that area.

As long as you stay away from the dreaded Chesapeake porcupine fish...

Mark
Say what? Mostly I kinda agree. But the Chesapeake has various bottoms. With an increase in chain you get better at having the shank at a lower angle and better set.
A light fortress is fin but you need to lay out some rhode and really back down. As said prior add chain more scope and dig it in. Some places these wont work but you will know pretty fast as you try to back down if its skipping on hard pan.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:17   #40
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Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

I agree that a better set can be had with more chain, but I don't think the set was the problem. The OP notes that the anchor was fouled with oyster shells, which indicate the anchor was set and a wind shift caused it to unset. Danforth style anchors have notorious reset problems when there are a lot of shells and rocks to jam them.

We spent two seasons in the Chesapeake and saw at least half of the boat there with 10-20' of chain on nylon rode and Fortresses as their primary gear. Perhaps the OP's secondary setup could have had 30' of chain instead of 10', but I don't think it would make any difference in this case.

The OP set the anchor using 6:1, which should provide a shallow enough angle for a Fortress to set well. If it was not set well, I would point more toward the nylon stretch preventing the pull force from fully reaching the anchor instead of the set angle. It is even possible that an all chain rode would not have mattered if a wind shift dislodged the Fortress.

IMO, he had an unfortunate day and did not really do anything "wrong". Perhaps he could have done a very few things slightly different that might have made the difference, but it is all guess at this point. I guess the biggest thing would have been to toss the day completely when he found out his primary gear wasn't usable. Personally, I would have stayed on my secondary gear like he did unless I knew the weather was heading downhill (although I don't like that side of St. Michaels and would have been on the San Domingo side anyway).

Mark
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:38   #41
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Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post

Fortress is anodized, which is a chemically bonded coating.
That's not true:

This is anodising:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WikiPedia
Anodizing (also spelled "anodising", particularly in the UK) is an electrolytic passivation process used to increase the thickness of the natural oxide layer on the surface of metal parts.
Anodizing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:39   #42
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pirate Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

My 1st boat with a Danforth type anchor was a 23ft Virgo Voyager... Seagull outboard..
I'd anchored for the night near the entrance on the Studland side of Poole harbour (which I knew intimately as it was my working environment).. there's a small restaurant and dinghy small boat yard/club with moorings then about half a mile to the entrance where a chain ferry operates.
Anyway.. after a peaceful night we woke to brilliant blue sky and perfectly still water...
lazy breakfast then motor out to Studland Bay.. drop the hook and head to the Studland Arms for lunch being the plan..
Started the Seagull to get it warmed for later.... Hahahahahahhahaaaa
Half hour later I've finishing cleaning the gubbins and putting her back together when the GF says... "Phil... should we be moving..?"..
Me... " Its all right luv... just swinging with the tide.."
The tide had changed.. un-noticed because it was so still and my preoccupation with 'IT'...
We were accelerating towards the entrance on a spring tide which runs out of a narrow gap at around 4-6 knots.. not nice..
I ran out the jib then ran and hauled in the anchor which had flipped and been jammed upright by a pebble... I cleared it and hurled it out again but by now we were going to fast for it to bite... short of hooking a heavy solid object.. damn... nothing around...
So in again and stow and a mad dash back to the tiller... GF's blissfully unaware down below making coffee and the chain ferries just started across from the opposite shore...
We Have a Race Folks...
Can I cross him with the current before his chain is high enough to hit my keel... Yes... YESSSsssssss.... Oh ****... we've hit an eddy..
Voice floats up... "Phil... do you want Marmite or Marmalade on your toast..?"
Me.. "One of each Hun..."
Now there's no chance of getting through.. but no worries with the drop in speed we'll pass behind and with lowering un tensioned chain
we'll be fine... (note positive attitude)...
"*******.... WTF ARE YOU STOPPING FOR.. ARRRRGGGGGGHHH"
Wind in the jib... out fenders... prepare lines to tie on... come along side... aka RAM....
Voice floats up... "Breakfasts ready Phil... up or down...?"
Me... "Might as well have it up here.. not going anywhere.. soon.."
Call RNLI on VHF and offer sincere apologies for closing the Harbour and could they please call Barfleur.. the cross channel ferry which was due soon...
Also that I'd be much obliged if their Inshore boat could come and
un-stick us from the chain ferry...
By this time the ferry had developed a list as 200 odd people heading across for the beaches etc leaned over to stare down at the Odd Couple having breakfast... clicking of camera's was deafening... anyway... the Lifeboat appeared and the new Cox... seeing a large audience generously studded with gorgeous females in varying states of scantiness decided to be dramatic... came roaring round the turn opposite Brownsea Castle and up toward... around 200yds away he hung the helm hard over and cut his throttle... the resulting wave took away my rubbing strake as we surged up the side of the old steel ferry.... More clicking of BLUDI CAMERAS...
So... eventually we got a line and they towed us across to Blood Alley where we anchored in a more gentle ebb... Phew.
Life resumed... buses debarked for Swanage.. sun worshippers hit the beaches... small boat traffic resumed and the Barfleur came in 45 minutes overdue...
And I worked on my *+^$**d
Never used a Danforth or Seagull since...
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:03   #43
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Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

Hey Boatman... great story!

Wish that I could get some of those pictures to post here on CF (ho,ho).

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:07   #44
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Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Full reverse on a nylon rode is probably equivalent to ~10kts of wind due to the stretch preventing the anchor from seeing the full load. One of the drawbacks of nylon, I guess.
Mark
Mark, I don't think that this is correct at all. Once the rode has stretched, if you continue to pull the full load is placed on the anchor... just like with chain. Just one of the reasons that one should back down for an extended period (say a minute or two) rather than just "bounce" on the rode.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:13   #45
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Re: Leaving Your Boat at Anchor on a Windy Day

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....e down below making coffee and the chain ferries just started across from the opposite shore.......
Voice floats up... "Phil... do you want Marmite or Marmalade on your toast..?"
Me.. "One of each Hun..."
[....
Never used a Danforth or Seagull since...
Now THAT is cool under pressure. .

Funny though, thought that the seagull might factor into it when I read the first sentence.

Well told.
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