Oil Spill in Santa Barbara

[nimblemotors]

Oil Pipeline bursts, Governer declares state of emergency.

Santa Barbara oil spill: Pipeline was below capacity - CNN.com

[nimblemotors]

No Comment?

They had a big solar panel pipeline break in the solar farm in the california desert yesterday. The reattached the wires and it working again.

[rognvald]

Nimble,
I'm surprised more have not commented . . . however, these disasters are symptomatic of Third World politics where corruption and greed permit the perpetrators to operate unsafe systems rather than protect the public and environment. I am not anti-oil and believe it is our key(The US) to eliminate our troubling dependence on Middle East Oil and the unhealthy relationships that are its consequence. But, to allow repeat offenders to continue doing business with sub-standard systems and poor maintenance is unacceptable. Standards must be strictly enforced when it comes to public safety and the environment. How we ,as a nation, maintain our country is a direct parallel to how we, as people, maintain our homes and boats. You can always tell when you're in a bad neighborhood.

[Lake-Effect]

Current estimate of spill: 101,000 gallons.

In all the talk for and against pipeline construction (eg Keystone XL), not once have I heard the builders or the proponents tell us that they will be using better pipeline technology, to significantly reduce the likelihood of spills, and the amount of a potential spill.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Nimble,
I'm surprised more have not commented . . . however, these disasters are symptomatic of Third World politics where corruption and greed permit the perpetrators to operate unsafe systems rather than protect the public and environment. I am not anti-oil and believe it is our key(The US) to eliminate our troubling dependence on Middle East Oil and the unhealthy relationships that are its consequence. But, to allow repeat offenders to continue doing business with sub-standard systems and poor maintenance is unacceptable. Standards must be strictly enforced when it comes to public safety and the environment. How we ,as a nation, maintain our country is a direct parallel to how we, as people, maintain our homes and boats. You can always tell when you're in a bad neighborhood.

The unfortunate fact is that in the US and in California in particular, obtaining the necessary permits and clearances to construct new, state of the art, piping systems is so arduous, expensive and chancy, and with the likelihood that an operator will be further stymied for years by BS lawsuits filed by self appointed Environmentalists after they have obtained the 200 or so permits needed before work can begin, operators resign themselves to "making do" with the equipment they have. From the perspective of spills 100,000 gallons sounds impressive until one considers that a single tank-car typically carries 34,000 gallons and even with only 1.2% of the oil trains suffering derailments, the consequential spills from damaged tank cars is an order of magnitude greater. Moreover, the waters of the Santa Barbara Channel are virtually always covered with more or less of a slick as a consequence of the natural seepage of oil and gas from underground oil fields, particularly around Coal Oil Point which is estimated to be the largest natural oil seep in the world. That has been going on for thousands of years and will continue to do so for thousands more. Accordingly, the "spill" from this incident is literally merely a drop in the bucket. Moreover, I suspect that, as always, the amount spilled will prove to be far less than originally estimated (the spill amounts have already been revised downward several times).

FWIW...

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

The unfortunate fact is that in the US and in California in particular, obtaining the necessary permits and clearances to construct new, state of the art, piping systems is so arduous, expensive and chancy, and with the likelihood that an operator will be further stymied for years by BS lawsuits filed by self appointed Environmentalists after they have obtained the 200 or so permits needed before work can begin, operators resign themselves to "making do" with the equipment they have. From the perspective of spills 100,000 gallons sounds impressive until one considers that a single tank-car typically carries 34,000 gallons and even with only 1.2% of the oil trains suffering derailments, the consequential spills from damaged tank cars is an order of magnitude greater. Moreover, the waters of the Santa Barbara Channel are virtually always covered with more or less of a slick as a consequence of the natural seepage of oil and gas from underground oil fields, particularly around Coal Oil Point which is estimated to be the largest natural oil seep in the world. That has been going on for thousands of years and will continue to do so for thousands more. Accordingly, the "spill" from this incident is literally merely a drop in the bucket. Moreover, I suspect that, as always, the amount spilled will prove to be far less than originally estimated (the spill amounts have already been revised downward several times).

FWIW...

Said much more eloquently than I was going to.

I also challenge the op to create a solar panel from scratch without petroleum.....and by scratch I mean every component.

I'm not anti renewables.....I have them and love them. I am a realist.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

...obtaining the necessary permits and clearances to construct new, state of the art, piping systems is so arduous, expensive and chancy, and with the likelihood that an operator will be further stymied for years by BS lawsuits filed by self appointed Environmentalists...

seriously, what new, state of the art piping system? As I said, I've heard NOTHING on that front, and I certainly don't recall that a better pipeline system was part of the Keystone proposals.

Nothing but self-interest is stopping the oil industry from improving existing pipelines, btw.

To me, the oil industry is only saying "more, faster" when it comes to proposals for exploration and transport. Is the pipeline's best argument "hey, we're not as bad as railroads" ?

[TacomaSailor]

The LA Times newspaper published three e-mails from the owner of the ranch thru which the broken pipeline runs. He made the following points.

- his family has ranched the land for three generations
- he is very familiar with the pipelines - there are more than one
- he regularly talks to the pipeline operators
- his ranch manager called him about "strong petroleum odors" early in the evening before the break
- his ranch hands know the difference between "normal" pipeline odors and stronger persistent odors that need investigation
- he called the pipeline(s) operators, all of whom said "it is not ours"
- later his ranch hands found a small oil puddle
- he called the pipeline(s) operators, all of whom said "it is not ours"
- he verified the leak and called the operators again, all of whom said "it is not ours"

It was not until, at least, "many" hours after his initial report of the strong odors that someone from the pipeline company arrived on scene to investigate.

The Plains All American Pipeline company pays "several million" a year in fines for pipeline spills and operational errors and problems. Their net profit last year was $878 million. I to would not bother with regulatory issues if the fines were less than 1/5 of 1% of my profit.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

The unfortunate fact is that in the US and in California in particular, obtaining the necessary permits and clearances to construct new, state of the art, piping systems is so arduous, expensive and chancy, and with the likelihood that an operator will be further stymied for years by BS lawsuits filed by self appointed Environmentalists after they have obtained the 200 or so permits needed before work can begin, operators resign themselves to "making do" with the equipment they have. From the perspective of spills 100,000 gallons sounds impressive until one considers that a single tank-car typically carries 34,000 gallons and even with only 1.2% of the oil trains suffering derailments, the consequential spills from damaged tank cars is an order of magnitude greater. Moreover, the waters of the Santa Barbara Channel are virtually always covered with more or less of a slick as a consequence of the natural seepage of oil and gas from underground oil fields, particularly around Coal Oil Point which is estimated to be the largest natural oil seep in the world. That has been going on for thousands of years and will continue to do so for thousands more. Accordingly, the "spill" from this incident is literally merely a drop in the bucket. Moreover, I suspect that, as always, the amount spilled will prove to be far less than originally estimated (the spill amounts have already been revised downward several times).

FWIW...

So, no big deal? Right?

[SV THIRD DAY]

There hasn't been much about this story because frankly...it's not that big of deal. AHH...pants and hair on fire....4 pelicans died...you hater. Calm down.....calm down. The spill was found, stopped and is being cleaned up.

Oh I know, in this day and age you never want to miss out on using a tragedy to advance your agenda....but the spill just isn't that big. Only a small portion of the oil flowed into the water. More oil and gas bubble up (literally) from the ocean flow close to that area (Coal Oil Point) than this spill put in the ocean.

[Greenhand]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

There hasn't been much about this story because frankly...it's not that big of deal. AHH...pants and hair on fire....4 pelicans died...you hater. Calm down.....calm down. The spill was found, stopped and is being cleaned up.

Oh I know, in this day and age you never want to miss out on using a tragedy to advance your agenda....but the spill just isn't that big. Only a small portion of the oil flowed into the water. More oil and gas bubble up (literally) from the ocean flow close to that area (Coal Oil Point) than this spill put in the ocean.

Tell that to the sea lions.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Greenhand

Tell that to the sea lions.

You mean the thousands that are starving to death due to lack of food supply since their population is at historic and unsustainable levels?

See this is the problem of living life from emotions rather than staying calm.

[Greenhand]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

You mean the thousands that are starving to death due to lack of food supply since their population is at historic and unsustainable levels?

See this is the problem of living life from emotions rather than staying calm.

Who is getting all riled up here?

[SV THIRD DAY]

Correcting myths isn't being railed up....it's being realistic.

[MidwestRefugee]

Does it really matter? Since the deepwater horizon spill killed off all sea life there is nothing left to die.
Oh, never mind. Seems the deepwater horizon didn't kill off everything, not even in the gulf.....