Madeira Beach, FL

[Gemini Dreams]

Madeira Beach is currently in another hostile mood against their liveaboards. One deputy is spearheading and organizing the waterfront businesses and homes in a rally to remove the anchored boats.

From my encounter with the deputy and local businesses this week.

1. McDonalds' dock is actually McDonalds' and Publix. Publix owns the new restaurant about to open and wants to make sure the dock is always clear and available for nice shinny boats that have lots of money.

2. McDonalds is reasonable but not the instigator of the current issues. But if you leave your dinghy here while exploring any other parts of town, you may be towed or charged for trespassing.

3. All waterfront businesses have been approached by Pinellas Co sheriff to get approval to "trespass" anyone landing on their waterfront. His call today was "I have someone I would like to trespass. Will you agree?"

4. Several homeowners have also been approached to call when they see landings.

5. All city owned property will result in a trespass arrest is you land by dinghy. Not by boat, but by dinghy! The day use dock that is at the city building was specifically inquired about and the answer was "There is NOT A day use dock at the city building! There NEVER WAS a day use dock at the city building!'

6. Tying up at the school is immediate transportation to jail.

7. Tying up at the bridge right of way could be a federal issue.

8. The officer reported two arrest the previous day and three bow towings.

9. If you are heading south (or north) and leave a dinghy anywhere in Madeira Beach expect the above treatment.


Beware
W

[FSMike]

You ought to post that info on ActiveCaptain, WaterwayGuide, and cruisersnet.

[denverd0n]

Let's begin with your comment about "one deputy." The deputies that patrol that area are not employees of the city of Madeira Beach. Madeira Beach, in fact, does not have its own police department. They rely on the Pinellas County Sheriffs Office to provide law enforcement. So is this really a Madeira Beach issue, or is it an issue with the Pinellas Sheriffs Office?

If you want to address the problem, and make any changes, you need to be quite clear on that first and foremost.

Second, forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, but it sounds to me like your first four complaints are:

1. McDonalds only wants customers to use their private dock.
2. Publix only wants customers to use their private dock.
3. It has been suggested to other businesses that only customers should be allowed to use their private docks.
4. It has been suggested to homeowners that they might not want to allow strangers to use their private docks or land on their private property.

Frankly, I'm not seeing anything unreasonable there. The businesses have every right to limit dock usage to their customers, just like they can limit parking lot usage to their customers. As for private property... Well, I mean, it's PRIVATE! Why would anyone ever think it is okay to land their dinghy on someone's private dock, or private property!?!

Then we get to the complaints that sound like they might have some merit.

The city is changing the rules for landing on public property? You say "not by boat, but by dinghy." Not sure what that means. A dinghy is a type of boat, and almost any boat can serve as a dinghy. Are you saying they have created some new rule specifically for inflatables?

Did the city actually change the rules, have these rules been in place all along and they are just now enforcing them, or is this "one deputy" just taking it on himself to enforce things differently? This is something that you need to find out. If the city changed the rules it will be published somewhere--they can't just change laws and keep it a secret.

If tying up at the school means immediate transportation to jail, then that means there has to be a law that specifically prohibits this. If so, okay, you have to obey it. If not, then that would constitute false arrest and any attorney worth his salt should be able to get you a fat award in court. Have people actually been arrested for this? Do you know what they were charged with?

No offense, but your post comes off as just another rant. If you want to make a positive difference you need to be more specific, more focused, and strictly factual. You need to stick to real problems, not complaining because you can't land on private property or tie up in a federal right of way.

If things are changing in Madeira Beach then it is good for everyone to be aware. But more details need to be provided before anyone can do anything about this.

Good luck to you, whatever the case is.

[Gemini Dreams]

Up date 1/15/16:
Summary from the other boaters is that things are quietening down some. Three of the problematic liveaboards have either be to or are in jail. Several more have moved a mile down the bay and are using other access. The next anchorage has gone from 2 boats to 8.


December the 21 and 22 most of the liveaboards were visited for the "safety inspection". I was leaving for work as the Pinellas Co boat and Coast guard left McD's. They were joined in the bay by FWC who actually did the inspections.


January 7th was anchor light inspection time by FWC. The transient trawler in front of the American Legion had an anchor light so was not bothered. The transient sailboat anchored several hundred yards north was not so fortunate but after 35 minutes with the FWC they had an anchor light on afterwards.

take this as a rant or info.
W

See notes below for clarification.

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Let's begin with your comment about "one deputy." The deputies that patrol that area are not employees of the city of Madeira Beach. Madeira Beach, in fact, does not have its own police department. They rely on the Pinellas County Sheriffs Office to provide law enforcement. So is this really a Madeira Beach issue, or is it an issue with the Pinellas Sheriffs Office? Officers work a district for extended periods of time. Madeira beach also has a new mayor. Related to issue?

If you want to address the problem, and make any changes, you need to be quite clear on that first and foremost.

Second, forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, but it sounds to me like your first four complaints are:

1. McDonalds only wants customers to use their private dock. I have approval from GM.
2. Publix only wants customers to use their private dock. I have approval from GM.
3. It has been suggested to other businesses that only customers should be allowed to use their private docks. Officer requests to trespass not would the business like to trespass. One business has told me that they (the business) have been requested to deny the liveaboards access but wouldn't state by who. Another has actually agreed to trespass liveaboards, and have done so, that has been boater friendly for years.
4. It has been suggested to homeowners that they might not want to allow strangers to use their private docks or land on their private property. No one is landing on home owners or condos. They are contacting this officer anytime they see a dinghy in their channel. Even with public access.

Frankly, I'm not seeing anything unreasonable there. The businesses have every right to limit dock usage to their customers, just like they can limit parking lot usage to their customers. As for private property... Well, I mean, it's PRIVATE! Why would anyone ever think it is okay to land their dinghy on someone's private dock, or private property!?!

Then we get to the complaints that sound like they might have some merit.

The city is changing the rules for landing on public property? You say "not by boat, but by dinghy." Not sure what that means. A dinghy is a type of boat, and almost any boat can serve as a dinghy. Are you saying they have created some new rule specifically for inflatables? I am saying any vessel under 12 feet is being targeted. 20-30 foot vessels use the public dock often. The officer told me, "There is no access to land in Madeira Beach!" When asked about the public use dock at the city building that used to say "3 hour maximum, no overnight dockage" I was told it NEVER said that and he would charge me with trespassing if I tied up there. He stated all public parks would result in being trespassed also. (dog beach, memorial park, or the new park)(the new park has no mooring on seawall signs but allows park and leave for automobiles).

Did the city actually change the rules, have these rules been in place all along and they are just now enforcing them, or is this "one deputy" just taking it on himself to enforce things differently? Yes, himself. This is something that you need to find out. If the city changed the rules it will be published somewhere--they can't just change laws and keep it a secret. Emails to the city divisions go unanswered.

If tying up at the school means immediate transportation to jail, then that means there has to be a law that specifically prohibits this. If so, okay, you have to obey it. If not, then that would constitute false arrest and any attorney worth his salt should be able to get you a fat award in court. Have people actually been arrested for this? No most have heard the warning before and don't go there. But the officer uses this in his "talk" with you. Do you know what they were charged with? The school is adjacent to a public beach but owns the seawall if your dinghy touches the sea wall there is a problem. You will be trespassed for tying up to the public beach! Several of the liveaboards on the south side have had encounters. Even though sever people park there for their daily run/jog and leave cars. There is also has a dock at the school but all locals know never to use it. Problem that makes this difficult to live with is people park at the school also for their daily run/jog and leave their cars here. Also the bridge abutments are signed no trespassing while allowing fishing and parking but not small craft.

No offense, but your post comes off as just another rant. Yes is was a rant to get the information out before anyone got caught in the dragnet. If you want to make a positive difference you need to be more specific, more focused, and strictly factual. You need to stick to real problems, not complaining because you can't land on private property or tie up in a federal right of way.

If things are changing in Madeira Beach then it is good for everyone to be aware. But more details need to be provided before anyone can do anything about this.

Good luck to you, whatever the case is.

[Gemini Dreams]

"2016-04" ordinance of the City of Madeira Beach, FL

"Create a substance of unobstucted use of public docks and boat launching ramps and restrictions to securing or tying of vessels to public property and providing for an effective date."

http://livestream.com/cityofmadeirabeach/events/4962857

3/16/2016 BOC Regular (Part 4) time stamp 23:45-24:49
I will post details when I can get a copy of the full ordinance.

JUST BE AWARE MAD BEACH AND OFFICER LUCKET SAY,
"MADEIRA BEACH OWNS ALL THE SEA WALLS IN MADEIRA BEACH!"

[Sailor Jer]

...some guy I know from key west wanted to sell me his derelict Dufour Arpege LOL (non operating motor he hasn't fixed in at least six months among other things)

He knows I owned an Arpege once and how mad crazy I love those boats LOL.

He's been squatting on it just south of this troubled spot since last October...tried to tell me this place was heaven, "great place to anchor out nobody messes with you" LOL, yet he wonders why when i seen him last month I offered only $1500 for the boat as I'd have to tow the boat to a yard to fix the motor/plus still fix the motor so it wasn't pre-derelict and became a even bigger liability...

Too funny how he acted insulted like I was cheating him LOL...sad he'll let that Dufour Arpege get pre-derelict tagged and then crushed as he's another boat people/broke loser without means thinking "oh that won't happen-I'll exploit the fact I have a 10yr old daughter and they'll make us homeless if they did that"

Now we see the might of the Florida anchor ban going into effect and how counties will enforce it on their terms...at their will.

Time for those who can't afford/try to act like they can't afford a boat to be responsible boat owners to quit squatting citing this "freedom is the right to be careless and not obey laws" B.S. or pay up for a slippage/legit place to squat in Florida...just like they got rid of the trailer hood communities they're getting rid of the boat people squatting paying little/contributing little if anything...time for them to run along to BAMA, Ol Miss, Texas is cheap I hear?

I can see a whole lotta potentially to be cited as pre-derelict boats going on the Craigslist soon..."free liveaboard" as the FWC will be clamping down now with the anchor ban in place.
The timing was right anyways, not all the ignorant of the law northerners here to stupidly take possession of these derelict vessels thinking they could squat out the winter...prolly why governor waited and let the law mature without his involvement?

None of this should surprise anyone...been a long time coming and progression was/is needed...how many of these squatters have healthcare since the healthcare law went into effect...sadly the bad apples spoiled it for the bunch...

[Gemini Dreams]

They were slow to make this available.

" ORDINANCE 2016-04


AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF MADEIRA BEACH, FLORIDA, AMENDING CHAPTER 78 OF
THE CODE OF ORDINANCES TO CREATE A SECTION PROVIDING FOR UNOBSTRUCTED USE
OF PUBLIC DOCKS AND BOAT LAUNCHING RAMPS AND RESTRICTIONS TO THE SECURING
OR TYING OF VESSELS TO PUBLIC PROPERTY; AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE.


WHEREAS, public docks and boat launching ramps are intended for unobstructed use by residents
and visitors alike of the City of Madeira Beach; and


WHEREAS, the tying, securing, docking or anchoring of any boat or vessel to public property without
specific authorization to do by the City Manager causes for interference with the public's enjoyment of the
public property; and


WHEREAS, City staff has recommended amendments to the City of Madeira Beach Code of
Ordinances to provide for docking and unloading regulations; and


WHEREAS, the Board of Commissioners has determined it is necessary to adopt provisions to
ensure the unobstructed use of public docks and boat launching ramps and to restrict the securing or tying
of vessels to public property.


NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT ORDAINED BY THE BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS OF THE CJTY OF MADEIRA
BEACH, FLORIDA:


SECTION 1. That Section 78-40 of Article II of Chapter 78 of the Code of Ordinances of the City of Madeira
Beach, Florida is hereby created to read as follows:


Sec. 78-40. - Restrictions on use of public property.


(a) No person shall secure any boat or vessel of any kind to any public dock or boat launching ramp in
such a manner as to interfere with the landing or docking of other boats or vessels, except when
such boat or vessel is actually engaged in the loading or discharging of persons or freight. No person
shall secure, tie, dock or anchor a boat or vessel of any kind in such a manner as to interfere with the
use of any public dock or launching ramp.
(b) No person shall secure, tie, dock, or anchor any boat or vessel of any kind to any public property,
including any beach, tree, pole, bulk-head or seawall adjacent to any public right of way or easement,
within the city, except public docks or boat launching ramps under those conditions provided in
subsection (a) upon the issuance of a permit by the city manager, authorizing specific use of the
public property for docking or unloading.
(c) The limitations in subsection (a) of this section on use of public docks and boat launching ramps shall
not be applicable where emergency conditions exist with respect to the boat or vessel using the
facility.
(d) Any boat or vessel of any kind found in violation of this section may be impounded by the city. The
city is directed to clearly publish the provisions contained in subsections (a), (b), (c) and (d) of this
section on each public dock or public launching ramp. Further, the city shall clearly notify the public
that violations of the posted subsections (a), (b) and (c) of this section will result in the impounding
of the boat or vessel.


SECTION 2. That this Ordinance shall become effective immediately upon its passage and adoption.


PASSED AND ADOPTED BY THE CITY COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF MADEIRA BEACH, FLORIDA, this
12th day of APRIL , 2016."

[parrotsailor]

The MickyD's dock is small and heavily used. I have used it many times myself and it has always been plainly marked "for customers only" I never had an issue going to Publix to get grub but I always bought a coffee or something from Mickys.I am not familiar with the current liveabord issue as I have been in new england for the past couple years but that area of the intercoastal is very narrow and is not an anchorage. P county has almost an unlimited anchorage area depending on draft. Now if your living on your boat and going to work everyday then your not navigating and you need to either find a quiet spot or find a dock.