Another Keel Lost; Another Capsize

[flyingfin]

Per the local reporter:
JIM DAMASKE | Times - Tanner Broadwell, 26, and Nikki Walsh, 24, sold everything they had in Colorado, bought an old sailboat and set out to sail around the Caribbean with their 2-year-old Pug, Remy. But their trip was cut short on Wednesday night when motoring their boat named Lagniappe into John's Pass (background), they struck something underwater that tore their boat's keel off and caused it to sink about 20 minutes later

Read the full story here:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/Sunken-...Pass_165308644

[hellosailor]

Dunno, Don. Each Seatow franchise is run separately by a different scoundrel. Ergh, no, I meant to say "highly trained respected local marine businessperson." Even if they are reputable, are they going to risk losing a paying customer by taking a financial questionnaire before they respond? Like the take-away window at Outback, they just ask for your money when you come to pick it up. Sometimes they get stiffed, that's why gas stations no longer let you pump-then-pay.
I'm betting that EITHER way, that Seatow has a lien filed against the owners way before anyone else does. Like, Monday morning if it hasn't happened already. Hey, that's business. Get in line first, right?

Ann-
Floridia often does not function the way the Mainland states do, so I couldn't guess what the Good Ole Boys have passed there. (Car license plate, $225, and you can only get one. Even the police think that's foolish, witnesses can't identify cars unless they saw the back end. Other states, $25 for TWO plates.)
But in many places, the State authorities will give you 30 days or less to clear a wreck (Bill, take note this is why) from a channel. And from the accounts of it, this is IN the channel to pass under the bridge, a busy channel.
After 30 days, it goes out for removal and the last owner of record gets a bill. If the the bill is unpaid, a judgement eventually gets issued, and that can result in a court order for 10% of your income for the next ten years, with another ten year extension.
In the case of "we lost everything" yeah, they might get a surprise, for the next ten or twenty years they'll be getting paycheck deductions, if they get any job "on the books".

Sailorbob misses and confuses a point here. We provide tax-funded SAR for the purpose of saving LIVES. The wreck is not a life, not a victim. It is a property issue. Like cleaning up after your dog. You choose to have the boat, you are held responsible for not dropping your boat in a public square. Or channel. It is a local matter (State) to decide how that local society will be burdened by that, or not.

Case in point, there has long been an argument about yes, BILLING FOR HELO SAR MISSIONS in our national parks. And for some years now, the very independent minded citizens of New Hampshire have had a program where the state actually evalutes the circumstances of each winter rescue, and if they deem you to be fools? Yes, you get CHARGED FOR THE SAR. They're quite up-front about it, posting warnings and terms as to what will qualify you as a fool. (Like, hiking up Mount Washington in your shirtsleeves with no winter gear, in January, when there's been a blizzard forecast for the past four days. As opposed to walking in your local park in late May, and being caught in an unexpected freak storm.)

Much of the world saw the same problems 100 years ago when the "motorcar" was new. Any idiot could buy one, and after they had hit enough cattle and scared enough horses, everyplace started passing laws requiring LICENSES and INSURANCE because the total damage was just too much too often.

The same thing IS slowly but surely happening in boating. Many states now require an operator's license or safety certificate (i.e. for anything over 10hp or 16 feet) and some, like New Jersey, require it regardless of your age and experience, even if you are just transiting their waters.

Unsuspecting people go out and do something foolish--and we all pay for it. One way or the other. That's not fair either.

If 'we' as a community don't discourage what the USCG would call "manifestly unsafe" boating...That's right, the gummint is going to step in and help us. We all know how that works out.

[zstine]

You don't need to drop the keel to obtain a reasonable condition assessment of your keel bolts. Torque them to 60% yield, a significantly higher load than they see in operation, and if they don't fail they are likely fine. Tartan specs 350ft-lbs for my 1" keel bolts. I have high confidence that the bolts are satisfactory given their ability to withstand this pre-load. 1975 Tartan 41' original bolts, heading offshore and I'm not going to drop the keel... I guess many of you think I'm an idiot, but with some of the 'safety' advice I hear on CF, I'm surprised half of you even leave the dock.

the sunk boat... By looks from the photo of a boat leaving the green mark to starboard (leaving port) and the sunk boat in-line with the red mark in the distance, the boat has sunk within the marked channel.. assuming there's not another set of marks we can't see and the boat in transit is on the proper side of the mark, which may not be true either.

[sailjumanji]

All the marina I have stayed at recently required insurance, plus some wanted a copy of the declarations page. Maybe Florida marinas are more relaxed regarding this, as they reportedly lived in a marina for some time.

Also, at age 20-something, you are pretty resilient. "Losing everything" may not account for losing much. It's not like our area where hurricane took away houses and a lifetime of possessions, or Houston flooding, etc. It was a $10k lesson, and a young working couple should be able to replace that in short order. Without gofundme.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by danielamartindm

"The red and green buoys seemed out of place."

Indeed, at the mouth of the pass, they are. After some shoaling issues, some markers were replaced or moved, leading to one "green right returning" marker in the approach to the pass. This never should have been attempted in the dark. The couple was lucky, and if they don't already share that perspective, I hope they visit the memorial in John's Pass Village to the long list of sailors who've lost their lives in these waters. They have their lives, and they have each other; boats can be replaced, or remembered.

I've noted a number of comments in this thread re the channel markers and the channel itself being in two different locations.....


I'm sure that even hugely experienced CF posters could be brought undone by that sort of thing....

Yes they made mistakes... haven't we all?

[bumpman]

Just a question... I wonder if salespersons selling a large sailboat to folks who are obviously newbies would recommend their taking a sail handling & nav course after the sale? That would be the responsible thing to do.

[TreblePlink]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I've noted a number of comments in this thread re the channel markers and the channel itself being in two different locations.....


I'm sure that even hugely experienced CF posters could be brought undone by that sort of thing....

The chart is very confusing for a channel with 4 feet controlling depth (note G)

[akprb]

Originally Posted by TreblePlink

The chart is very confusing for a channel with 4 feet controlling depth (note G)

(that's why if one is inexperienced with no local knowledge you do not approach in the dark, seamanship 101)

I once went in circles for four hours waiting to enter the pass in Vavauu for just this reason. This is not "driving" folks ;-)

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by pmagistro

Well, whatever your feelings on the issue, here is a link to their go fund me site.

https://www.gofundme.com/new-sailing-life

Hey, thanks for this Pmagistro, I'll be sending them something.

[hellosailor]

Really, once you get INSIDE St. John's Pass? Take one look at the charts, and tell me ANYONE would want to take even a shoal draft sailboat in there, at night, in the fog. The water is thin enough even when you CAN see the marks. Take another look at the Gargoyle Earth satellite photos of it. Lots of ways to get stuck or worse, not a good place on a foggy night. Good reasons to stay out anchored until after daybreak, unless the water was really rough.

[SV Sailfish]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Well lets see how hard Millennial have it. It seems like you accused them of the same old talking points (mass media). Lets begin; they were purposely dumbed down in public school and sold a bill of goods on higher education. Both parents worked, never home. They were taught by radical leftist in college about radial feminism, white privilege and toxic masculinity. Political correctness forbids them from saying anything about their condition. They come out of said college with enormous debt loads with no opportunity for employment except for service work which will never allow them to pay student loans back. Most professional jobs were outsourced to another country or given to H1B Visa immigrants. An 18 year old joining the military will go fight in a war that started before they were born(Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya..etc) for a country that is so hopelessly in debt that it cannot even pay the interest on the National Debt. Our politics are a sham i.e. poor choices, Hillary or Trump (damn!). Shall I continue? I think these kids broke free of their predictive programming paradigm and wanted to get away from the mess up country that they inherited form you. Kids today don't care about your money that is rapidly loosing its value, they value life and experiences. And just remember Boomer, one day you will be begging for them to wipe you feeble old bum and I doubt they will despite how much money you offer. I think these young people (who had a bad day) did something good to get into sailing and I hope many more follow. There are lots of old boats that need revitalizing. Sailing is not just for the elite, its for everybody young and old......love GenX

OK Mr Gen X,

I just donated $50 to these kids. At this sight...

https://www.gofundme.com/new-sailing-life

You are a very wordy person, so... I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is and match my donation. Either that or just shut the hell up. (respectfully so) If you don't have the $50... go ask mommy for it. As for my $50, I worked for it.

An old, over privileged, non-snowflake Baby Boomer. And damn proud of it.

[akprb]

Originally Posted by SV Sailfish

OK Mr Gen X,

I just donated $50 to these kids. At this sight...

https://www.gofundme.com/new-sailing-life

You are a very wordy person, so... I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is and match my donation. Either that or just shut the hell up. (respectfully so) If you don't have the $50... go ask mommy for it. As for my $50, I worked for it.

An old, over privledged, non-snowflake Baby Boomer. And damn proud of it.

MAGA ��

Who brought all those things these kids experienced??? The State.

Oh yea. And don’t feed the bears.

[SURV69]

I don't get it .... while insurance to protect their own boat can get pricey, the cost of liability seems very reasonable.

Does anyone know if they were sailing on what they had in their kitty, or if they where receiving something akin to a retirement?

Tough luck, but I agree with others that I wouldn't want to navigate that bridge at night, for although the bridge may be lit, the approach and the other side was most like dark. This reminds me that I should have an alternate place to go, if I'm likely to make my expected destination in the dark...

[frozenhawaiian]

Originally Posted by SV Sailfish

OK Mr Gen X,

I just donated $50 to these kids. At this sight...

https://www.gofundme.com/new-sailing-life

You are a very wordy person, so... I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is and match my donation. Either that or just shut the hell up. (respectfully so) If you don't have the $50... go ask mommy for it. As for my $50, I worked for it.

An old, over privileged, non-snowflake Baby Boomer. And damn proud of it.

gee I should go and uninsure my boat and do something idiotic and get the boat sunk, then I could get on the internet and beg people to buy me a new boat too.....

[jt11791]

What evidence is there that the keel came off? Just their say-so? I think, once the keel is off, the boat would immediately turtle and it doesn't sound like that's what happened.