Rules of the road on the Chesepeake Bay

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

You know, thanks for that. In the bay, I usually want to give lots of space to all the guys fishing even though they have complete mobility. I am talking about the guy in the 15 to 25' runabout with 1 or 3 lines out just staying in place, or slowly trolling. Not at anchor. I guess by the above, they are not restricted in maneuverability.

I had this situation a few weeks ago, I was beating down the channel, trying to point as high as I could, getting as close to each shore as possible to reduce total number of tacks as I was singlehanded. From across the channel I saw a guy, but couldn't see any lines, and didn't know if I wanted to go to his fore or aft.

Practically, maneuvering while fishing can sometimes be more difficult than you might imagine. During our early striped bass (aka rockfish) season, the preferred method is trolling. Often with planer boards, often on tether lines up to 100' (or even 125' on some of the charters), and then somewhere between 15-25 fishing lines deployed that way. Think of the planer boards as really long outriggers, so the conceptual beam of the boat with 100' tethers becomes something like 150' wide. With boatloads of tackle dragging in the water.

Sometimes complicated by trolling valves -- to enable going slow enough -- which often also mean the operator can't speed up or slow down the engines very quickly, and can't shift gears with trolling valves engaged without breaking stuff.

Complicated by boats on the other side, that you maybe can't see from your angle...

And of course complicated by the tens or twenties of similar boats with similar rigs all in the same area trying to get by each other without "planer board wars" (so to speak).

NONE of that grants any special navigation rights, and some of us actually know that.

But not everyone will know that. And even knowing, it's easy to get boxed in to a line of travel that doesn't seem to offer much in the way of Plan B. And even stopping the boat can mean a few hundred buck$$$ worth of lures and line lost from unintentionally dragging on the bottom.

All that just for background.

I might mention that several times we've been the stand-on vessel while watching an approaching boat continually turn into us. Another stand-on encounter was with another boat that must have been autopilot at about 25 knots (probably straight line from van aids in Eastern Bay to West River), that missed our bow by about 20' -- the wife (?) waved nicely as they sped by, no one at the helm.

Some of the fish guys around here listen to VHF Channel 68 (if you can stand it; it gets pretty rough sometimes) , and some will try to respond if you hail them. OTOH, "white fishing boat southbound near Thomas Point" could mean any of several dozen boats many times, so better ID to the extent possible may help.

The radio may or may not work for charter boats around here; most use cell phones for inter-boat buddy chat.

Speaking of crabbers near the South and West Rivers... well those float-free channel markers are mostly just a mere suggestion.

OTOH, it's not an easy life, and those guys are just trying to get by...

-Chris

[jbinbi]

I appreciate that info ranger. I always try to stay out of the way of anyone fishing, crabbing or lobstering; I don't want to ruin their fun or especially their business.

However, the guy I am talking about has 2 lines over the side and normally from a distance, I can't see where. He is not commercially fishing, he is just trying to catch something. The guy with 20 lines out, normally I can see something is different. So for him to be pissed at me while he is just drifting with 2 lines somewhere on his boat...

[tatomaceda]

So it all boils down to exercising your right-of-way or avoiding a collision. Seems simple enough to me.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by TheOffice

Dockhead has correctly stated the rule and the practicalities.

I have to go through a crab pot field every time I leave South River, so I understand where DD is coming from. The crabbers jump from pot to pot like bees to flowers. There is no discernable pattern and they are not watching for other vessels.

No reason to assert your rights and damage your boat.

Please, can we just stop using the word "rights" completely?
For the umpteenth time - you have no rights to assert on the water!

[daviddiscenza]

I want to thank everyone who offered the two cents in response to my query. Though I've only been sailing on the Bay for a couple of years , I've gotten the sense that watermen don't give a "rat's ass" about right of way and see us pleasure boaters as a nuisance. I'll just have to live with that.

My recent encounter with a waterman was like the one RWidman described. No matter how I maneuvered, he got in front of me. I guess it's their way of having fun.

As for "right of way", I learned in driver's education that the "right of way is yours to give". In the future, I'll just tack away.

Calm seas and prosperous voyage everyone.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by daviddiscenza

As for "right of way", I learned in driver's education that the "right of way is yours to give". In the future, I'll just tack away.
.

Now learn what sailor education should teach: "You have no right of way to give on the water. You only have obligations to act according to the rules"

[markpierce]

Regardless, if the other boat isn't taking timely action to avoid you, you are responsible for avoiding him.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Regardless, if the other boat isn't taking timely action to avoid you, you are responsible for avoiding him.

And that nicely sums up the whole subject of "rules" on the water.

It should be Point 1 in any course teaching "rules of the road" or whatever you want to call it.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by rwidman

OK, the voice of an "Admiralty Lawyer" has been heard. Or is it just some guy's interpretation of the law?

Seriously, call or email the MD DNR. I did that years ago on a different issue and I got my answer.

Evans was spot on. Raising your voice and denigrating him as an "admiralty lawyer" doesn't change that.

Note that what Evans quoted is the Inland Rules. Boaters should know the difference between the Inland Rules and the COLREGS and where the demarcation lines are. Accordingly, if you want an official reading you call the USCG, not the MD DNR. I suggest that the USCG, even the enforcement people at headquarters, will tell you to read the Rules which as others have noted are pretty clear on this matter.

The waterman is working but not fishing in the context of the Rules. BUT what is the point in making an issue of something that need not be made an issue? Sure some of them may be buttheads but generally giving them some room and waving on the way by avoids issues for you and may help avoid issues for others in the future.

[rwidman]

This is not an issue of the "rules", it's the interpretation of the rules. That's the point of this entire thread.

I'll bet if you asked the crabbers, they would say that they meet the definition of "engaged in fishing" and are the stand on vessel. If you understood what is involved in crabbing, you would probably agree.

Regardless of your interpretation of the rules, if the guy driving the other boat doesn't agree with you, there's going to be a boat wreck if you decide to assert your imagined "stand on" status.

Most of the Chesapeake Bay is several miles wide. The crabber has to operate where his traps are. You don't. You can easily avoid them and that's what you should do, COLREGS or not.

[donradcliffe]

The waterman who keeps getting in front of you is just trying to protect his gear from a WAFI.

Try going through a Mexican shrimping fleet at night. It makes avoiding crabbers look easy.

[TheOffice]

The SunSail boats are far more dangerous than the crabbers. My rule with them it that I stay the f-- away!

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You do have a copy onboard as you are required right ?

By whom?

Pete

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by rwidman

This is not an issue of the "rules", it's the interpretation of the rules. That's the point of this entire thread.

Good, because if he is using a pot hauler to lift a string of pots he isn't going anywhere fast and probably not keeping a good look out if he is on his own either. Since he can't move and lift pots at the same time surely he is therefore restricted in his ability to manoeuver, yes / no?

Pete

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by rwidman

This is not an issue of the "rules", it's the interpretation of the rules. That's the point of this entire thread.

The courts disagree with you. The rules are pretty clear and the court findings I'm familiar with agree with the more deterministic interpretations in this thread. That doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of recreational and even commercial fisherman who don't understand them.

Of course the rules say we are all fundamentally responsible for avoiding collision.

Originally Posted by Pete7

By whom?

This only applies in the US. 33 CFR 83.01(g) requires boats longer than 12m to carry a number of documents including the Inland Rules (the International COLREGS with a couple of tweaks because, well, we're Americans and we do silly things) in hard copy. There is a "ready reference" requirement and some exceptions are being considered for electronic copies that can be accessed within a time limit, two minutes I think.