Paperwork for Parrots

[jokinjoel]

Capngeo- It seems wrong that government employees treat us so poorly. FWS personnel can be particularly bad. I have been told Melanie A Raymond who works in Washington state is the dried turd in the sphincter of life. You don't by any chance remember the name of the disrespectful FWS person you had to deal with do you?

Tori - i agree it is a long difficult process, today, in the US. I recall the misery the good people at Oasis Sanctuary went through to bring the abandoned macaw Gulliver back to the US. My question is why? FWS hides the fact that these laws exist and wait like a troll under a bridge crossing at the border to eat our little friends. I have gone back and forth via email with some very nice patient people at the FWS, but my overall opinion of the service is very negative.

Beliezesailor- you are so right. Our cockatoo's nature is so strong. It breaks my heart every time I have to cut her flight feathers, or discipline her for eating the boat, or gets so excited to see another cockatoo. She is just doing what comes naturally after eons of evolving. They should not be domesticated. But she was hand raised, and is bonded to my wife and I. I feel obligated to do my best for her.

In theory CITES is pretty simple. If the experts in the country where the animal comes from are ok with taking an animal out of the country, then the rest of the treaty signers should be ok with it too. But in practice???? Ask 100 people on the street to describe CITES, Now ask 100 bird owners. Now ask 100 vets. No one knows anything about it until they lunge for your little friend. In the US they have laws against cruel and unusual punishment (taking a loved family member) and entrapment (hiding a law and then enforcing the punishment). But FWS doesn't care about any of that. And that doesn't even include the agricultural people.

I have also heard some horror stories about officials in Australia, and New Zealand simply killing your pet bird.

I have taken the time to register on the CITES forum. If anyone wants to pass on any specifics on how the treaty has been poorly administered I would be willing to pass along the information.

[winchwench46]

Ditto what Belizesailor said. There are enough pet parrots right here in the US of A who cannot seem to stay in a good loving home without nitwits bringing them illegally from the wild. (or even legally) I would know because I have seven "dumpees" who depend on me now. Other people's impulsive idiocy led me to this and my commitment to seeing them to the end of their natural lives brings me to my difficult crossroad. Hubby wants to retire on a boat (and so do I) but where am I going to find a boat big enough for seven parrots? (Oh, would that I could afford a Gunboat 60!) I'm sifting through this forum to see who's successfully cruised with parrots aboard and I'm thinking find a really good birdsitter and leave them ashore. They can and do chew (anyone is welcome to check out my bathroom cabinets), they do spook and fly when you least expect it, they poop everywhere, throw food, make glorious noise all dang day. I'm not sure where the pirate/parrot thing comes from because they seem wholly unsuitable for boat life. I'm hoping somebody talks me out of that sensible position so I'm going to keep reading.....

[GaryMayo]

Put the birds back in the tree they came from.

Some countries that is a very serious infraction.

If a pet shop, sell them back.

[jokinjoel]

Winch wench - if you want to cross a border (or apparently even get near.a border) you should get your CITES paperwork going. I guarantee you that getting the paperwork will be more difficult then cruising with 7 parrots. Maybe there is a center cockpit boat that has little or no wood in the aft cabin which would be the bird room. We kept our bird in the aft head when she was in her cage. She got spooked and fell in the water a couple times but she floats and was motivated to swim over to us. The eating the boat thing is a real issue. Teak ain't cheep to replace. We found out where she would regularly hang out and put plastic matting under these spots. And one of the good things about a boat is that you can sweep the whole boat on your hands and knees in about 10 minutes.

[GaryMayo]

Originally Posted by jokinjoel

Winch wench - if you want to cross a border (or apparently even get near.a border) you should get your CITES paperwork going. I guarantee you that getting the paperwork will be more difficult then cruising with 7 parrots. Maybe there is a center cockpit boat that has little or no wood in the aft cabin which would be the bird room. We kept our bird in the aft head when she was in her cage. She got spooked and fell in the water a couple times but she floats and was motivated to swim over to us. The eating the boat thing is a real issue. Teak ain't cheep to replace. We found out where she would regularly hang out and put plastic matting under these spots. And one of the good things about a boat is that you can sweep the whole boat on your hands and knees in about 10 minutes.

A duck swimming has a different signature in the water than a pet bird with wings outstretched smacking the water. Any large hungry catfish nearby would see your distressed bird and pop up for a quick lunch. In a split second, no more feathered friend.

We have macaws, and I would love to take them sailing, but I fear for preditors below.

[capngeo]

Capngeo- It seems wrong that government employees treat us so poorly. FWS personnel can be particularly bad. I have been told Melanie A Raymond who works in Washington state is the dried turd in the sphincter of life. You don't by any chance remember the name of the disrespectful FWS person you had to deal with do you?

It was 10+ years ago, no idea of the name.... BUT agreed they seem to be the WORST variety of government employee.

A duck swimming has a different signature in the water than a pet bird with wings outstretched smacking the water.

Macaws "swim" particularly poor; in fact they do not "swim" at all but rather try to thrash the water into submission.

[jokinjoel]

Originally Posted by GaryMayo

A duck swimming has a different signature in the water than a pet bird with wings outstretched smacking the water. Any large hungry catfish nearby would see your distressed bird and pop up for a quick lunch. In a split second, no more feathered friend.

We have macaws, and I would love to take them sailing, but I fear for preditors below.

And here I thought catfish were bottom feeders . Live and learn!

[Tori]

We have four large birds and a parrotlet and they have lived aboard with us on a 26 foot sailboat for over a year. They live loose outdoors 90 percent of the time and are in folding dog crates at night or during cold weather. Two macaws, an amazon a grey and a parrotlet. All birds are taught to swim back to the boat using positive reinforcement. There are bets off the stern of the boat on both sides and ropes on the dock for a wayward bird to climb up. They have all fell overboard and all got back in the boat or dock.
One macaw is so comfortable she explores all over the boat everybody else pretty much stays on custom made perches under the Bimini.
They have eaten alot of wood I just had the drop boards and cabin entry redone and will slide a piece of cheap plywood in front of it when we aren't home.
Working on CITES for all of them since leaving the states will occur eventually.
Overall they are happy, healthy vigorous birds and all are rescues.
Anyone who wants to know more about living aboard with parrots feel free to ask
Tori

[Tori]

Originally Posted by capngeo

It was 10+ years ago, no idea of the name.... BUT agreed they seem to be the WORST variety of government employee.

Macaws "swim" particularly poor; in fact they do not "swim" at all but rather try to thrash the water into submission.

I beg to differ both of my Macaws swim fine. They aren't thrilled about it and one cries like a baby but they are fine and not panicked.
This comes from training and positive reinforcement which is essential if the birds lives on the water they must be comfortable and be able to self rescue if needed in an emergency.
I have spent much time in the water holding a bird and swimming it back to the boat where it climbs the net to get a food reward from daddy at the top :-)

[Cheechako]

I've heard Parrots prefer an Ipad to paperwork.... :>)

[winchwench46]

GaryMayo: You're right about the catfish - our lake has small-child-eating-size catfish, and they DO feed off the top. Initially sailing around our mountain lake I worry about the raptors as well. They're brazen about snatching prey and not afraid of humans.

jokinjoel: You're right about CITES but I doubt we'll take them that far. I'm not fond of foreign countries in general, having traveled extensively for work, but after Tuesday I may have to rethink that position.

Tori: your post inspires me and I'm thinking a larger boat with more fiberglass, not so much wood would do the trick. Our lake gets very cold in the winter (hypothermia in less than 3 minutes) and the aforementioned catfish are a problem near the marina. Harnesses is one solution whenever they're outside the cabin - they fight getting them on but it might be helpful.

Thank you everybody!

[winchwench46]

Forgot to add..... yes they do prefer an Ipad to paperwork but best of all is a mini- laptop - many more buttons than an Ipad.

[Tori]

Are their wings not trimmed?
Mine are much happier outdoors remember how important natural sunlight is to the overall health of parrots. Mine are much happier and in better feather since moving primarily outdoors and you also have less indoor air pollution to deal with as well. Plus more room to move about and stretch wings. Send me a message with your email and I will get you pictures of our setup etc.

Where are you located by the way?

And when mine have fallen in they are out of the water rapidly since they are not all fond of it :-)

[winchwench46]

Well, conures are not trimmed, which is good actually. They fly three orbits and land back on the boat. They fly even when trimmed so we don't bother. Cockatoo is trimmed and she's the dodo bird I think a catfish would eat. Freaks out at the vacuum cleaner and away she goes. Amazons are too fat to fly so I don't trim them. They all "flap/flop" though and would end up in the water one way or the other. They have an outdoor aviary and spend half their life outdoors so I get the natural light thing. They're happiest when they can see where I am and I think they would all be totally cool with hanging out on a boat close to their people. I just have to have a quick way to fish them out when they go in. I would love to see your setup. Will send you a msg.

[GaryMayo]

Originally Posted by Tori

Are their wings not trimmed?
Mine are much happier outdoors remember how important natural sunlight is to the overall health of parrots. Mine are much happier and in better feather since moving primarily outdoors and you also have less indoor air pollution to deal with as well. Plus more room to move about and stretch wings. Send me a message with your email and I will get you pictures of our setup etc.

Where are you located by the way?

And when mine have fallen in they are out of the water rapidly since they are not all fond of it :-)

The term is clipped, and flight is balanced. Clip both wings, and a breeze comes along, and the bird still flies quite well. Clip a modest amount of one sides primary feathers, leaving the three outside ones alone. This way, at rest, the wing still has a natural look. Clip a new feather, or correctly, blood feather, and a bird could die rather quickly. Birds have no extra blood to spare. A couple teaspoons of lost blood on a large bird can send them into shock, and death. If one does not know how to tell a blood feather, do not clip the birds feathers, ever.

When you clip a bird to ground them, it is difficult for them to accept the situations, for some birds. It can bring on health issues, behavioral issues, depression, clinging to a human, food disorders, feather plucking, to name a few.

If you possibly can, it is always better to leave all four legs on your Cocker Spaniel, and it is better to leave your birds full flight.

We have Macaws, and all 8 of them are full flight, and all of them have spent time outside. Some of them have spent overnights in trees. We lost one to a predator so we no longer let them outside unattended. There is a part of me that wishes I could release them into the wild. Such majestic creatures as birds, really should never be imprisoned for the pleasure of humans.

We started off with one when I was young and dumb. Then another for a mate, so our first would not be lonely. The rest are rescues.

One limped when we got him. I always towel a new bird and check for broken bones, etc to see first hand (Pun intended) the health of the bird. To my horror, I discovered the reason for the limp. The leg band was too small, and was eating through the leg. I immediately got a cutting tool, and removed the band. Today, he is fine. We named him Limper, and his leg is completely healed.

Knowing what I know about large exotic birds, if I had my way, no one could own them except some major zoos, and I would be hessitant of that.

Birds are not domesticated lap dogs. They are inheriantly very wild inside, and just want to be free to do what they do best, fly free.