Ultrasonic Anti-Fouling

[Bagwain]

As stated in the word doc that I attached previously
(Square wave and pulse D/C power)

We know full well that it is not the movement of the water that does the trick but the upsetting of the biological life at a cellular / molecular level.

[four winds]

Thanks for the response.

As stated before the I found the word doc practically incomprehensible.

[Bagwain]

My friend who developed the system is a new Australian and he composed it.
I will have to consider revising it when I go to the general market.
End of the day it is simply electromagnetic and sound frequency.

I have heard that the US Navy has there own system. (But I can't verify this)

[beau]

As i said earlier the boat next to mine had a similiar system in Brisbane Australia and even in winter it DID NOT WORK.
Worse he couldn't sleep on the boat at night because of the constant pinging.
Gord where are you, please hijack this thread again.

I also read that ultra sound gets rid of mosquitos, rats , mice and cockroaches, dogs and cats.
And none of those systems worked either.

[conachair]

Kit available here.
Ultrasonic Antifouling for Boats - Jaycar Electronics

[James S]

Lets not forget our "be nice" rule.

[four winds]

The Jaycar kit is why I question the very high price of other systems, it's a $250 dollar kit (some assembly required, fine by me). The web site says it is developed from information available in the public domain. That's probably a reference to the millions spent by universities on this mentioned to by the OP.

Some specs on frequency and power from the web site.

• Output frequency range: 19.08 - 41.66kHz in 14 bands with 200ns steps.
• Frequency sweep in each band: 12 frequencies ranging from 80Hz spacings at 20kHz to 344Hz steps at 40kHz
• Signal burst period: 600ms at 20kHz, 300ms at 40kHz (12000 cycles/ burst)
• Output drive. 250VAC
• Supply Voltage. 11.5V to 16V maximum
• Current drain: 220mA average at 12V


Notice it sweeps 14 bands at 12 frequencies, so it's not simply pounding a sign wave into the hull. I'm assuming the very earliest versions of this may have worked that way. Maybe that's why this device is considered a no go by some. But things change, things improve. However prices at 4k and higher, that's an untenable threshold to overcome the reputation. Except for those with the deepest pockets.

At $250 it could be worth looking into if self installed. (and don't tell anyone.)


For what its worth, many people can hear 19kHz, that's not ultrasonic. For some it would create a pinging sound each time the device returned to the base frequency. A very high pitched ting, ting, ting, ting. My tinnitus is ringing a 19k right now. This device would likely create a beat frequency. Hopefully it wouldn't break down my molecular structure.


So I would ask, how does Bagwain's system differ from the Jaycor specs? I would ask him to simply list his specs in comparison.

My guess is only that it goes to a higher frequency. Others I've seen go as high a 200kHz and more. To what effect I don't know.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by conachair

Kit available here.
Ultrasonic Antifouling for Boats - Jaycar Electronics

Getting rid of the stuff on the shelves since completed units aren't selling?

[osirissail]

It all boils down to practicality - If the ultrasonic stuff actually worked - and ultrasonic cleaners have been around for decades - and it was effective and cost efficient you would see it on all the cruise liners, container ships, freights, and high end cruising boats. The military would never use the stuff as it would broadcast their ship's position to an "enemy" ship's sonar like a frigging strobe light on a dark night.
- - The fact is, you do not see it being used and instead the horribly expensive old fashioned bottom haul-out, bottom scrubbing and anti-foulant paint is still being used by everybody. Why, paint works and is currently the only viable system. Plain and simple.
- - Vibrating a plastic hull is a waste of time as the nature of resin and fiberglass dampens the vibrations very rapidly. Vibrating a metal hull brings up all kinds of auxilliary problems of welds, attachments and plate fatique. Not to mention the harmonics generated that will probably drive your guard dogs crazy and the humans buggy.
- - It may not be pure "snake-oil" but from a practical and realistic point of view it sure is close.

[four winds]

Jaycor doesn't sell anything in completed form. They are an electronics kits company something like Edmund Scientific. Apparently they can sell a transducer for much less than the marine suppliers as well.

Granted I'm not saying this thing works, just maintaining a skeptical open mindedness. And trying to tease some more info out of the OP.

Frankly, the unity BS almost sent me packing. But since Bagwain admits he's not the tech expert on the project I'll hang around a bit longer.


For me if I could double the time interval between scrubbing episodes for $2-300 it would be viable. Doesn't have to be totally successful at that price point to add value.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Getting rid of the stuff on the shelves since completed units aren't selling?

Absolutely no idea.

I was only aware of the kit from a post on a UK forum there are some people trying it out. Looks like a it comes from an amatuer electronics place who supply a lot of kits as well. Just the build process so far on the forum. Though a bit more broad minded than most on here, it doesn't cost much and current draw isn't that bad so a few people are giving it a go. Though it will be hard to quantify any results as growth varies so much and it seems unlikely to be a silver bullet. But a least a few people are having fun with a little project over the winter and seem fairly objective and willing to share their findings, good or bad.

edit
disussion here - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...ghlight=jaycar

no chat about if it works or not, mainly building the thing.
Must say I'm dubious about it doing a massive amount, but who knows, it might help enough to pay for itself over a few years.

[four winds]

Please share those results here if possible.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by four winds

Please share those results here if possible.

Ditto.

[IdoraKeeper]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I would like to discuss a subject that I am sure most individuals simply
take as a fact of our daily existence: losing things!

An example: on more than one occasion while working on the car, I would
drop something--a nut or bolt--and look for it in every location it
could possibly have landed, only to discover that it was just not there.
What would add to the frustration of the whole experience was that once
I had surrendered to the futility of the search, there the object would
be...in plain sight.

My mother used to say when something had strangely disappeared that it
had fallen into a void. Later, when the object was recovered, it had
somehow fallen back out of the void. That explanation did not satisfy my
need to understand this mysterious phenomenon. I am happy to announce,
after years of diligent effort, the answer is available.

The turning point in the investigation was the realization that certain
types of materials have a greater chance of being affected by this
phenomenon. (This was discovered only after the disappearance of socks
was found to be caused by an entirely different set of circumstances.)
While this temporary disappearance can happen to any object under the
right conditions, it occurs more often in metal objects subjected to a
great deal of stress in their formation (i.e., nuts, bolts, earrings,
keys, etc.).

What occurs is that when the object falls and strikes the ground, this
causes vibration at the atomic level. In objects with a highly ordered
crystalline structure (metals), it is possible to get all the atoms to
vibrate in unison if the object is below a certain limiting size. So
this usually happens only to small objects; the conditions required for
this to happen to very large items will be discussed later. When the
neutrons vibrate in unison it causes the subatomic gravitons to emit a
type of energy not yet fully understood. The phenomenon has been named
Graviton Oscillation Neutron Emission, or GONE for short. This energy
field actually causes the object to shift in relative time. The degree
of temporal shift is dependent on the amount of energy released It may
shift just a few moments, in which case you may find the object while
conducting your search. On other occasions it may take minutes, hours or
months, or you may never catch up with the item in the stream of time.

For larger objects the energy from the impact is not sufficient to cause
a shift in time. However, sympathetic vibrations due to resonance can
spread throughout the structure, causing the temporal shift to occur
later. This has been observed in mall parking lots where a car door had
been slammed, and after a few minutes have passed the car disappears.
This phenomenon is usually accompanied by a position shift as well, such
that when the automobile reappears, it is in a different parking space
than the one you are quite sure you left it in. In a few instances the
vehicles have been found miles away from the point of disappearance,
somewhat worse for wear from their journey through time and space. And
often missing tires and electronic components, oddly enough.

So, now that this phenomenon is understood, it should relieve us all of
unnecessary anxiety. When you can't find your keys or your car, just
wait--it's only GONE temporarily. It will pop up when it falls out of
the void.

I have seen this temporal shift effect work into the past as well. The nut I removed and thought I lost reappeared attached in it's original position. Alternator bolts that have been subjected to the magnetic field of the alternator seem most affected in this manner. Now if only I could work out how to loose something and have it reassemble itself after a repair I could go into business and compete with Chief Engineer.

Todd

[hummingway]

I'm thinking a good crop of snails on the hull. I mean they eat the algea in fish tanks right? Not only would they keep the hull clean but they would attract tasty fish making the fishing better. Sure, they might slow the boat a bit but we could genetically engineer them to be stramlined and face the right direction. Besides the slower sailing would be made up for by the reduction in cleaning time!