Volvo D2-55C - considering options on what to do with it.

[goboatingnow]

By the way. Where are you sourcing high capacity LTO cells. Ive not seen them available

As to why you’d want a huge cycle capacity is beyond me. You’ll be dead long before 20000 cycles is used up.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

By the way. Where are you sourcing high capacity LTO cells. Ive not seen them available

As to why you’d want a huge cycle capacity is beyond me. You’ll be dead long before 20000 cycles is used up.

Yinglong LTO 45Ah cells can be found if you try hard enough. There are many scammers of these cells though so due diligence is warranted.

As to the cycle count? The really nice thing about LTO's is you can drain them to ZERO power left in the cells, let them sit for a long time then charge them right back up. The penalty is loss of cycles - once drained to empty ONCE they have a cycle life of between 6000 and 8000 cycles. I like the fact that you can use every last amp in them and not be worried abut recharging anytime soon and they recharge right back up with just lost cycles. If I can get 6000 cycles out of a battery made of LTO cells that I have run dead flat then that is a huge bonus to me in my situation. Also LTO is the SAFEST lithium chemistry - safer then even LiFePO4. Lots to love about them. They are however at around $450 per kWh - LiFePO4 is hovering around $200 per kWh if you build your own battery. However they are only slightly lighter then Pb batteries. So there is that. Also they are 2.3v nominal per cell, so take 22 to make a 48v battery. So for 22 cells you end up with a 48v battery at 45Ah. So takes 200 -300 cells to make a decent size battery bank. Figure on $50 USD per cell for real ones. Still, if you are up for making your own battery and sourcing the BMS for it, its not a lot more then "Marine" LiFePO4 battery systems.

Back to the engine.

Perkins make a decent engine. I was first told that this may be a Peugeot block and given the boat was built by Garcia in 1987, that did fit. If it was a Peugeot then it was going to go overboard at first chance and replaced with a Beta. However given it has checked out to be a Perkins I am willing to work with it.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

Yinglong LTO 45Ah cells can be found if you try hard enough. There are many scammers of these cells though so due diligence is warranted.

As to the cycle count? The really nice thing about LTO's is you can drain them to ZERO power left in the cells, let them sit for a long time then charge them right back up. The penalty is loss of cycles - once drained to empty ONCE they have a cycle life of between 6000 and 8000 cycles. I like the fact that you can use every last amp in them and not be worried abut recharging anytime soon and they recharge right back up with just lost cycles. If I can get 6000 cycles out of a battery made of LTO cells that I have run dead flat then that is a huge bonus to me in my situation. Also LTO is the SAFEST lithium chemistry - safer then even LiFePO4. Lots to love about them. They are however at around $450 per kWh - LiFePO4 is hovering around $200 per kWh if you build your own battery. However they are only slightly lighter then Pb batteries. So there is that. Also they are 2.3v nominal per cell, so take 22 to make a 48v battery. So for 22 cells you end up with a 48v battery at 45Ah. So takes 200 -300 cells to make a decent size battery bank. Figure on $50 USD per cell for real ones. Still, if you are up for making your own battery and sourcing the BMS for it, its not a lot more then "Marine" LiFePO4 battery systems.

Back to the engine.

Perkins make a decent engine. I was first told that this may be a Peugeot block and given the boat was built by Garcia in 1987, that did fit. If it was a Peugeot then it was going to go overboard at first chance and replaced with a Beta. However given it has checked out to be a Perkins I am willing to work with it.

Peugeot make good engines actually certainly better then small Fords. , why throw a good block overboard. Your whole strategy seems to be built on uninformed dogma.

Perkins had some poor engines too.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Peugeot make good engines actually certainly better then small Fords. , why throw a good block overboard. Your whole strategy seems to be built on uninformed dogma.

Perkins had some poor engines too.

Well that's your dogma and your opinion , now isn't it?


I dont want an old French engine in my boat in this part of the world. Perkins are solid engines - at least the 404 series. Finding someone who knows Perkins would generally be a whole easier then finding someone who knows a Peugeot.

But I suppose you will argue with that.

[CarinaPDX]

To be clear: these engines are manufactured by Shibauru in Japan. Perkins markets them in much of the world but they do not make them. Back when environmental standards were coming in the Perkins-Sabre joint venture designed marinized versions of Shibauru engines (marketed by Perkins as the 400 series) which were widely liked but had limited distribution. Volvo-Penta had an ancient product line and couldn't justify designing a new range of engines but needed the upgrades to stay in the market. So they bought the product line from Perkins-Sabre, which got them past the environmental problems and expanded the sales of the engines for Perkins. A win-win for V-P and Perkins but not so much customers as the parts prices increased rather dramatically with the move.

The point I would make is that these are Japanese engines, not English Perkins. They have a very good reputation, with the exception of the black box for the models with MDIs. They are as good as any other brand and you should be happy with what you have.

Greg

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

To be clear: these engines are manufactured by Shibauru in Japan. Perkins markets them in much of the world but they do not make them. Back when environmental standards were coming in the Perkins-Sabre joint venture designed marinized versions of Shibauru engines (marketed by Perkins as the 400 series) which were widely liked but had limited distribution. Volvo-Penta had an ancient product line and couldn't justify designing a new range of engines but needed the upgrades to stay in the market. So they bought the product line from Perkins-Sabre, which got them past the environmental problems and expanded the sales of the engines for Perkins. A win-win for V-P and Perkins but not so much customers as the parts prices increased rather dramatically with the move.

The point I would make is that these are Japanese engines, not English Perkins. They have a very good reputation, with the exception of the black box for the models with MDIs. They are as good as any other brand and you should be happy with what you have.

Greg

And that’s only part of the story. Caterpillar bought Perkins out for more than $1 billion in 1998 and fitted the engines to almost all of the small equipment lineup ( skidsteers , bobcats, sidewalk excavators, little gensets).
The impossible had happened, Cat went metric

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

And that’s only part of the story. Caterpillar bought Perkins out for more than $1 billion in 1998 and fitted the engines to almost all of the small equipment lineup ( skidsteers , bobcats, sidewalk excavators, little gensets).
The impossible had happened, Cat went metric

That's one way to do it.

I wonder if Caterpillar has a better MDI? They do know how to make things rugged.

Greg

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

Well that's your dogma and your opinion , now isn't it?





I dont want an old French engine in my boat in this part of the world. Perkins are solid engines - at least the 404 series. Finding someone who knows Perkins would generally be a whole easier then finding someone who knows a Peugeot.



But I suppose you will argue with that.

Having worked for many years in the car engine assembly business. I’d rate Peugeots engineering , but actually most of their blocks are oem units anyway

( OEM or JV : Volvo , Mazda, Renault , Land Rover , Ford , Opel )

Very few marine engines make the basic block , most just make the marinisation parts.

Perkins had both good and bad engines. Like most companies .

I certainly won’t merely toss something based on perceived national stereotypes.

The fact is if you want access to parts in anyplace that has sone sort of marine infrastructure you simply can’t beat Volvo Penta. Horrendous pricing yes ,but that’s irrelevant if you have to wait weeks.

Simply because the block is Perkins is almost completely irelevant , basic blocks give very little trouble and anyway you can never be sure what parts are Volvo specific as marinisation can change injector settings , gaskets , belts , etc etc. hence Perkins is not an as advantage

Car engines are much more common then industrial engines so a Peugeot block would be an advantage actually.


I have had 8 engines over all the boats 4 were Volvo , 2 were nanni ( kubota ) , 1 Perkins , 1 Styr Diesel

The Perkins sheered a injector shaft , the first nanni threw a rod after 2 months

All four Volvos required no major work other then the recommended service intervals. ( 2 engines were 4500 hours , 1x 2500 hours and the KAD had 1000)

The KAD was the one I was most worried about as it’s turbo and intercooled but other then a basic issue with the out drive not supplying enough volume of water , it performed faultlessly.

Follow the service intervals , use the correct VDS oil and good quality coolant etc. the engine will be running when you are dead !!!

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The fact is if you want access to parts in anyplace that has sone sort of marine infrastructure you simply can’t beat Volvo Penta. Horrendous pricing yes ,but that’s irrelevant if you have to wait weeks.

It doesn't seem to apply to the OP's unique situation but for most world cruisers this is true and something that seems to get ignored a lot. V-P is in every major yachting center I have ever been to, and Yanmar is not far behind. There is no third place for small marine engines. Certainly if cruising in the U.S. and Europe the Beta is a great choice but beyond that I think not. I owned a Sabb diesel for years and while I got great support from the dealer and the U.S. distributor before they closed, and from the factory in Norway throughout, importing parts into foreign locations is often challenging, expensive, and time-consuming. As expensive as V-P parts are, if you can source them locally in such places you will be ahead of the game. Which is yet another reason to keep the D2-55.

Greg

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

It doesn't seem to apply to the OP's unique situation but for most world cruisers this is true and something that seems to get ignored a lot. V-P is in every major yachting center I have ever been to, and Yanmar is not far behind. There is no third place for small marine engines. Certainly if cruising in the U.S. and Europe the Beta is a great choice but beyond that I think not. I owned a Sabb diesel for years and while I got great support from the dealer and the U.S. distributor before they closed, and from the factory in Norway throughout, importing parts into foreign locations is often challenging, expensive, and time-consuming. As expensive as V-P parts are, if you can source them locally in such places you will be ahead of the game. Which is yet another reason to keep the D2-55.



Greg

Agreed. I would say having owned a yanmar ( I left that out of my list ) for a while, parts were harder to get then VP.

Recently a friend needed a head gasket for a old Perkins marine engine. He’s still waiting 4 weeks later. Perkins local dealers had nothing

Beta I have no experience of.

For availability of parts V-P can’t be beaten. Yes it will melt your credit card.

[danno7]

Hi all, I need to know the size of the nut in the center of the crank on a D2-55.

Let me explain a bit. I came across a Volvo D2-55 that has been sitting on the hard and not used for about 6 years. I will be pulling every injector and maybe dropping a couple ounces of oil into each cylinder. Then I need to put a wrench on the crank and see if it will turn. I do not want to take a dozen different sockets with me. I am guessing it is a 17mm??

[Jim Jones]

32mm for the centre crank nut

[danno7]

Perfect! I would have never guessed it was that large. I really appreciate hearing that, it helps a lot.

[Baby tug]

I’m not writing this to comment on your situation , I’m writing this for other people reading it , I don’t know why you would put a bar on your engine and crank it over by hand when you have a starter , if you want to lube the cylinders , block off the air intake completely with your hand and crank the engine over that will spray diesel in your cylinders and lube your cylinders , pulling your injectors and doing a compression test will give you a better idea of engine condition however that is a lot of work for in my opinion nothing , start the engine and see how it runs many many diesel engines are left sitting over winter in subzero conditions , and nothing more than cranked over and started in the spring , I have a Volvo four-cylinder hundred horsepower engine in my boat and I can assure you I won’t be doing any unnecessary repairs , parts are way too expensive , The small diesels are used in everything from water pumps , excavators , reefer units the list goes on and on and on they check fluids and run them you do not do not need to obsess over your engine , it will either run well or it won’t , if it ain’t broke don’t fix it

[danno7]

Originally Posted by Baby tug

I’m not writing this to comment on your situation , I’m writing this for other people reading it , I don’t know why you would put a bar on your engine and crank it over by hand when you have a starter , if you want to lube the cylinders , block off the air intake completely with your hand and crank the engine over that will spray diesel in your cylinders and lube your cylinders , if it ain’t broke don’t fix it

I understand. In my situation, the battery is dead and I am just wanting to find out if she moves. I understand it could be good to pull each injector and splash a dash of Marvel Mystery oil in each cylinder. From what I understand, Marvel is a hydraulic oil with acetone in it? I am not sure about that. To be safe, I can give each cylinder a splash of diesel fuel.