Parallel hybrid drive

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Yes I am



Well, let's do some math. Few sources tell that for cruising at about 5 knots
enough 5hp. That's 3.7kw.

Let say I'll have 20 batteries 120Ah each, fully charged (sailing). That's 20x120=2400=24kWh.

Than suddenly there's no wind for 5 days. But weather is great, sunny. How much energy do we have? Wind generator - zero (no wind).

Let say batteries operate 8 hours at 75% efficiency.
For 5 days: 5days x 8hr x 10panels x 0.315kW= 95kWh. (probably can do a little better, guys please confirm with real life results).

So, we have 24kWh (batteries) + 95kWh (solar)=119kWh.
We start using energy carefully, and let say we will consume 19 kWh in 5 days for other boat needs.
So, we have 100kWh for 5 days cruising. If 3.7 kW is enough for cruising, that's 27 hours of motoring, or 5.5hrs per day.

And once again, silent motoring along the coast...priceless! ))

Note - if there will be no wind for only 2 days, things will look different. 24kWh batteries + (2days x 8hr x 10panels x 0.315) = 79.4 kWh. At 3.7 kW, that's 21.5 hrs of motoring for 2 days, or 10.7hrs per day.
And of course, when batteries are empty but I still need motoring, I will start these dirty, noisy, smelly, clanky engines if I need to. But the whole idea - to do that not very often .

And sorry for little mistake. 20 batteries x 120 Ah x 12V = 28.8 kWh. But since you can't drain 100% of it, my number (24 kWh) seems to be just perfect for estimate .
Better yet, I'd use 10 of these 24V batteries, 160Ah eah. That's 38.4kWh and 1213lbs.
http://www.mastervolt.com/products/li-ion/mli-24-160/

Here's some more info about that Steyr hybrid. It looks great (specs and all), but no any info about price can be found...

http://www.steyr-motors.com/fileadmi...rid_ng_web.pdf

http://www.boatingmag.com/high-bred-...ersus-parallel

One more interesting article:

http://www.nsboats.com/wp-content/up...eview_NSBA.pdf

[StuM]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Yes I am



Well, let's do some math. Few sources tell that for cruising at about 5 knots
enough 5hp. That's 3.7kw. (1)

Let say I'll have 20 batteries 120Ah each, fully charged (sailing). That's 20x120=2400=24kWh. (2)

Than suddenly there's no wind for 5 days. But weather is great, sunny. How much energy do we have? Wind generator - zero (no wind).

Let say batteries operate 8 hours at 75% efficiency.
For 5 days: 5days x 8hr x 10panels x 0.315kW= 95kWh. (probably can do a little better, guys please confirm with real life results). (2)

So, we have 24kWh (batteries) + 95kWh (solar)=119kWh. (3)
We start using energy carefully, and let say we will consume 19 kWh in 5 days for other boat needs. (4)
So, we have 100kWh for 5 days cruising. If 3.7 kW is enough for cruising, that's 27 hours of motoring, or 5.5hrs per day. (5)

Now to the diesels. We will set most economical RPM so engines will use 3L per engine per hour. That's 6L per hour. Just to compare, for same amount of motoring time (27 hours), we will burn 27x6=162L of diesel. (6)
If we'll decide to do more motoring on diesel, we'll burn more fuel, of course.
After these 5 dais we'll be sailing again, and battery will be charged up very quickly. Not so with diesel - these 162L are lost forever . (7)

Now imagine that we decided to go to and around totally remote islands for 2 months. That would include some motoring around these islands, when there's no wind etc.etc. How fast these 300-400 gallons of fuel will be burned, depends on our luck, but they definitely will be burned. 1200L at 6L/hr of very economical motoring - that's 200 hrs. That' not much. (8)

And once again, silent motoring along the coast...priceless! ))

1. 5 knots, 5 HP for a cat big enough to carry 20 x 120Ah batteries and 10 x 315W solar panels. Fuggedabadit!. Even in a calm with flat seas, you would need at least twice that HP. So about 8kW

2. Actually 20 x 120Ah 12V batteries = 28.8 kWh

3. Plan on about 5 hours full rated equivalent for panels so the best you could expect would be 80kWh.

4. Only if you discharge your batteries 100%.

5. From the above, you have 88 kWh, not 100. Then see 1 above. So that's actually 11 hours, or about 2 hours per day - for a grand total of 55 extra miles.

6. To get your 5 knots, you probably only need to run one of those engines at the same 10HP, using about 2.5 lph. So your 11 hours of motoring will cost you 27.5 litres, not 162.

7. Depends on how you define "quickly" . That's a lot of energy you have to put back on top of your 4kWh per day for "other boat needs".

This is all assuming that you need to get that extra 55 miles in 5 days rather than just waiting for the weather. Hardly seems worth all those batteries, panels and hybrid installations to me.

And finally:

8. 1200l @ 2.5lph = 480 hours motoring. @ 5knots = 2,400 nm. That's a lot of of motoring around those islands for a couple of months - about 40 miles per day.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by StuM

1. 5 knots, 5 HP for a cat big enough to carry 20 x 120Ah batteries and 10 x 315W solar panels. Fuggedabadit!. Even in a calm with flat seas, you would need at least twice that HP. So about 8kW

2. Actually 20 x 120Ah 12V batteries = 28.8 kWh

3. Plan on about 5 hours full rated equivalent for panels so the best you could expect would be 80kWh.

4. Only if you discharge your batteries 100%.

5. From the above, you have 88 kWh, not 100. Then see 1 above. So that's actually 11 hours, or about 2 hours per day - for a grand total of 55 extra miles.

6. To get your 5 knots, you probably only need to run one of those engines at the same 10HP, using about 2.5 lph. So your 11 hours of motoring will cost you 27.5 litres, not 162.

7. Depends on how you define "quickly" . That's a lot of energy you have to put back on top of your 4kWh per day for "other boat needs".

This is all assuming that you need to get that extra 55 miles in 5 days rather than just waiting for the weather. Hardly seems worth all those batteries, panels and hybrid installations to me.

And finally:

8. 1200l @ 2.5lph = 480 hours motoring. @ 5knots = 2,400 nm. That's a lot of of motoring around those islands for a couple of months - about 40 miles per day.

1. This is my and yours guess only, I'd love to hear real life story.
Here's one. Cat is Lagoon 410 smaller than my proposed cat, but anyway, here's story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u267wy-d5A

2. I already mentioned my mistake. And in fact, these 160Ah batteries look great, so 10 of these 24V batteries would make 38.4 kWh.

3. I already derated solar panels at 75%, in fact, they will generate at least some power from dusk till dawn. So let's go back to 100 kWh..

4. My mistake covered that, I used 24kWh instead 28 for calculations.

5. With 38.4 kWh battery, let say usable 34 kWh, we have 153 kWh before deducting some for boat needs (what a difference comparing to "your" 88 kWh) .
Then there's 1 above. Only real test will tell who's right. I tend to believe that Lagoon 410 owner.

6. With all above. there should be A LOT more, than 11 hours of electric propulsion. But again, only real test will tell.

7.Don't forget about these 2 wind generators, they work no matter what's the wind direction . That's for recovery, when we're sailing again and there is a wind .

Also I didn't mention that electric drive can run from generator, which uses way less fuel than main diesel. There will be some savings, not as much as in case of pure electric propulsion, of course.

And finally. This setup will work perfectly for ALL short motoring situations in first place. Around anchorage, moorage, close to the coast, etc. It removes annoying engine noise.
Not necessary it will or should pay for itself in year, or two, or 5, even though it might. But it definitely will add some comfort to cruising. When boat costs 500K, one could try to bargain a little more and get it for 450K, then spend 50K on upgrades including hybrid, and have 500K boat with this nice feature )

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

1. This is my and yours guess only, I'd love to hear real life story.
Here's one. Cat is Lagoon 410 smaller than my proposed cat, but anyway, here's story.

My 34' cat needs around 40-50% of full throttle to hit 5kts (well below hull speed). Considering it's a 25hp motor, that's around 10-13hp. Playing with a 5hp dingy motor on a bracket, top speed was under 3kts. Saying you are going to push a much larger cat at 5kts on 5 hp is flat out wrong.

Assuming 10hp would get you 5kts would be very optimistic for a boat 45' or larger. Realistically you are probably up in the 15-20hp range, assuming calm conditions.


2. I already mentioned my mistake. And in fact, these 160Ah batteries look great, so 10 of these 24V batteries would make 38.4 kWh.
Assuming a more realistic 15hp and you can only use 50% of the rated capacity, that's around an hour under power.

3. I already derated solar panels at 75%, in fact, they will generate at least some power from dusk till dawn. So let's go back to 100 kWh.. 10 panels as 315 watts is a peak of 3.15kw. Assuming the total is around 5hrs at peak each day (true peak will be shorter but you will pick up some power outside the peaks). That's around 15kwh. Assuming you draw off 4kwh for house loads, that leaves 11kwh...and means point 2 is over estimating. Now you are down around 30-40minutes of motoring at 5kts.

4. My mistake covered that, I used 24kWh instead 28 for calculations.

5. With 38.4 kWh battery, let say usable 34 kWh, we have 153 kWh before deducting some for boat needs (what a difference comparing to "your" 88 kWh) .
Then there's 1 above. Only real test will tell who's right. I tend to believe that Lagoon 410 owner. Given my real life HP needs and recommended HP ranges used by boat designers (ie: lagoon doesn't outfit the 40+ ft cats with a pair of 5hp diesels), it appears you "want" it to be true but it's not reality.

6. With all above. there should be A LOT more, than 11 hours of electric propulsion. But again, only real test will tell. If you get plenty of sun, it works out around 11hrs of electric propulsion on a 20 day passage. Of course, realistically, you aren't likely to have 20 days with no wind on a passage. If things are horrible, it might be half the days, so now you are around 5-6hrs motoring.

7.Don't forget about these 2 wind generators, they work no matter what's the wind direction . That's for recovery, when we're sailing again and there is a wind . Useless for propulsion. If there is enough wind to generate any significant output, the sails are much more effective at moving the boat.

Also I didn't mention that electric drive can run from generator, which uses way less fuel than main diesel. There will be some savings, not as much as in case of pure electric propulsion, of course. Where did you get this little tidbit? Unless you are comparing to a massively larger engine (ie 500hp engine), the diesel used correlates closely to the HP generated. There might be a 5% difference but if you have a true parallel drive, it's likely more efficient to just crank up the diesel propulsion system when you account for conversion losses.

And finally. This setup will work perfectly for ALL short motoring situations in first place. Around anchorage, moorage, close to the coast, etc. It removes annoying engine noise. Other than a little blurble of water, what annoying engine noise?
Not necessary it will or should pay for itself in year, or two, or 5, even though it might. Or 50 or 100yrs and it almost certainly won't But it definitely will add some comfort to cruising. What comfort? When boat costs 500K, one could try to bargain a little more and get it for 450K, then spend 50K on upgrades including hybrid, and have 500K boat with this nice feature ) If we assume you bargain a little more (you save $50k off the negotiation with or without the electric propulsion system added), you are still paying $50k for a system that might save you 10-20 gallons of fuel per year.

It's still very clear that a 5 gal fuel jug could easily replace the parallel system.

[ranchero76]

[QUOTE=valhalla360;2105241]

My 34' cat needs around 40-50% of full throttle to hit 5kts (well below hull speed). Considering it's a 25hp motor, that's around 10-13hp. Playing with a 5hp dingy motor on a bracket, top speed was under 3kts. Saying you are going to push a much larger cat at 5kts on 5 hp is flat out wrong.

Assuming 10hp would get you 5kts would be very optimistic for a boat 45' or larger. Realistically you are probably up in the 15-20hp range, assuming calm conditions.

Electric motor has max torque at zero RPM, so things look different comparing to diesel. Once again - guy in the video clearly says, that in his opinion 9kW electric motors are way too powerful for 41ft cat.

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2. I already mentioned my mistake. And in fact, these 160Ah batteries look great, so 10 of these 24V batteries would make 38.4 kWh.
Assuming a more realistic 15hp and you can only use 50% of the rated capacity, that's around an hour under power.



This is plain wrong Please research and you'll be VERY surprized. Modern batteries allow discharging to almost zero WITHOUT HARM TO THEM.

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3. I already derated solar panels at 75%, in fact, they will generate at least some power from dusk till dawn. So let's go back to 100 kWh.. 10 panels as 315 watts is a peak of 3.15kw. Assuming the total is around 5hrs at peak each day (true peak will be shorter but you will pick up some power outside the peaks). That's around 15kwh. Assuming you draw off 4kwh for house loads, that leaves 11kwh...and means point 2 is over estimating. Now you are down around 30-40minutes of motoring at 5kts.



Again, please do research. Solar batteries will generate power even on very cloudy day, from dusk till down, NOT JUST 5 HOURS. So it'll be safe to assume they work 8hrs at 75% (some peak hours more than 75%, some less, but in total in real life it will be more than 8hrs altogether.

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4. My mistake covered that, I used 24kWh instead 28 for calculations.

5. With 38.4 kWh battery, let say usable 34 kWh, we have 153 kWh before deducting some for boat needs (what a difference comparing to "your" 88 kWh) .
Then there's 1 above. Only real test will tell who's right. I tend to believe that Lagoon 410 owner. Given my real life HP needs and recommended HP ranges used by boat designers (ie: lagoon doesn't outfit the 40+ ft cats with a pair of 5hp diesels), it appears you "want" it to be true but it's not reality.

So you're saying that Lagoon does not exist or its owner is lying?
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7.Don't forget about these 2 wind generators, they work no matter what's the wind direction . That's for recovery, when we're sailing again and there is a wind . Useless for propulsion. If there is enough wind to generate any significant output, the sails are much more effective at moving the boat.


It looks like you're just trying to troll me. I clearly stated that wind generators are for topping batteries after they drained, not for propulsion. And they will work in any wind direction.

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Also I didn't mention that electric drive can run from generator, which uses way less fuel than main diesel. There will be some savings, not as much as in case of pure electric propulsion, of course. Where did you get this little tidbit? Unless you are comparing to a massively larger engine (ie 500hp engine), the diesel used correlates closely to the HP generated. There might be a 5% difference but if you have a true parallel drive, it's likely more efficient to just crank up the diesel propulsion system when you account for conversion losses.



O yea, tell me that 75hp diesel will be as economical as 10kW generator )))))))))))))) That generator will take about 1-2 liters of diesel per hour depending on load. Try that with main diesel NO MATTER WHAT THE LOAD AND RPM

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And finally. This setup will work perfectly for ALL short motoring situations in first place. Around anchorage, moorage, close to the coast, etc. It removes annoying engine noise. Other than a little blurble of water, what annoying engine noise?


Well I guess your engine is so quiet that you don't need electric motor for sure But there's rest of us, who CAN hear diesel noise and wouldn't mind get rid of it.

[Korvessa]

Hybrid-marine.co.uk

Check them out

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

[ranchero76]

Thanks, actually, there's good usable information, including videos and numbers.

[four winds]

Ranchero, folks are trying to help, not troll.

There are some gaps and misguided assumptions in your knowledge base.

One is the repeated insistence on having 8 hours of sun.

For sun hours the term is solar insolation or solar insolance. Used when calculating for a planned installation and it varies by location but provides a yearly average of full sun hours for use in the calculations. No need to guess.

Solar Insolation Map

[ranchero76]

Ok, but I'd rather hear from real solar panel users, how much energy (kWh) one 300W panel brings per 1 day. Anybody?

[valhalla360]

[QUOTE=ranchero76;2105355]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

My 34' cat needs around 40-50% of full throttle to hit 5kts (well below hull speed). Considering it's a 25hp motor, that's around 10-13hp. Playing with a 5hp dingy motor on a bracket, top speed was under 3kts. Saying you are going to push a much larger cat at 5kts on 5 hp is flat out wrong.

Assuming 10hp would get you 5kts would be very optimistic for a boat 45' or larger. Realistically you are probably up in the 15-20hp range, assuming calm conditions.

Electric motor has max torque at zero RPM, so things look different comparing to diesel. Once again - guy in the video clearly says, that in his opinion 9kW electric motors are way too powerful for 41ft cat.

Torque helps with acceleration. It doesn't do a thing for top speed. A 5hp electric motor might get you to 2.5kts faster but it's not going to get you to higher speed. Around the dock, there is some benefit but making miles, there is zero benefit.

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2. I already mentioned my mistake. And in fact, these 160Ah batteries look great, so 10 of these 24V batteries would make 38.4 kWh.
Assuming a more realistic 15hp and you can only use 50% of the rated capacity, that's around an hour under power.



This is plain wrong Please research and you'll be VERY surprized. Modern batteries allow discharging to almost zero WITHOUT HARM TO THEM.
OK, so if we go lithum now you added $10k to the cost and for comparison, it would take 2 - 5 gal fuel jugs to the system.

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3. I already derated solar panels at 75%, in fact, they will generate at least some power from dusk till dawn. So let's go back to 100 kWh.. 10 panels as 315 watts is a peak of 3.15kw. Assuming the total is around 5hrs at peak each day (true peak will be shorter but you will pick up some power outside the peaks). That's around 15kwh. Assuming you draw off 4kwh for house loads, that leaves 11kwh...and means point 2 is over estimating. Now you are down around 30-40minutes of motoring at 5kts.



Again, please do research. Solar batteries will generate power even on very cloudy day, from dusk till down, NOT JUST 5 HOURS. So it'll be safe to assume they work 8hrs at 75% (some peak hours more than 75%, some less, but in total in real life it will be more than 8hrs altogether.

You are basically saying the same thing in a different way. 8hrs at 75% is roughly equivalent to 6hrs at 100%. Neither is actually correct. Reality is early morning it may be putting out 5-10% and gradually builds then in late afternoon it gradually fades but it's a lot easier to run the numbers by taking an equivalent number of hours at 100%.

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4. My mistake covered that, I used 24kWh instead 28 for calculations.

5. With 38.4 kWh battery, let say usable 34 kWh, we have 153 kWh before deducting some for boat needs (what a difference comparing to "your" 88 kWh) .
Then there's 1 above. Only real test will tell who's right. I tend to believe that Lagoon 410 owner. Given my real life HP needs and recommended HP ranges used by boat designers (ie: lagoon doesn't outfit the 40+ ft cats with a pair of 5hp diesels), it appears you "want" it to be true but it's not reality.

So you're saying that Lagoon does not exist or its owner is lying? Lagoon exists and they put something on the order of a pair of 30-40hp engines in (depending on the model). If they could hit hull speed with a pair of 5hp engines, why wouldn't they?
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7.Don't forget about these 2 wind generators, they work no matter what's the wind direction . That's for recovery, when we're sailing again and there is a wind . Useless for propulsion. If there is enough wind to generate any significant output, the sails are much more effective at moving the boat.


It looks like you're just trying to troll me. I clearly stated that wind generators are for topping batteries after they drained, not for propulsion. And they will work in any wind direction.No trolling. They are simply irrelevant to the propulsion issue. If you get a day or two with wind, the massive solar array can easily catch up. It's just unclear why you would bring it up as part of a propulsion discussion?

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Also I didn't mention that electric drive can run from generator, which uses way less fuel than main diesel. There will be some savings, not as much as in case of pure electric propulsion, of course. Where did you get this little tidbit? Unless you are comparing to a massively larger engine (ie 500hp engine), the diesel used correlates closely to the HP generated. There might be a 5% difference but if you have a true parallel drive, it's likely more efficient to just crank up the diesel propulsion system when you account for conversion losses.



O yea, tell me that 75hp diesel will be as economical as 10kW generator )))))))))))))) That generator will take about 1-2 liters of diesel per hour depending on load. Try that with main diesel NO MATTER WHAT THE LOAD AND RPM If he 75 diesel is putting out 10hp, fuel consumption might be 5-10 higher but considering the number of hours we are talking about, its negligible. It's surprising how little extra fuel is used by generating the same power from a slightly larger engine (also, unless you are talking power cats those in the 40-50' range typically have 30-40hp engines, so your 75hp example is exaggerating unless you are talking a really big cat in which case, 5kts is likely to need 25-30hp which means you need a large generator.

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And finally. This setup will work perfectly for ALL short motoring situations in first place. Around anchorage, moorage, close to the coast, etc. It removes annoying engine noise. Other than a little blurble of water, what annoying engine noise?


Well I guess your engine is so quiet that you don't need electric motor for sure But there's rest of us, who CAN hear diesel noise and wouldn't mind get rid of it. That's fine but it just seems really expensive and complicated to eliminate something very minor

Please come back once you do your conversion and share the numbers.

[ranchero76]

[QUOTE=valhalla360;2105680]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Please come back once you do your conversion and share the numbers.

Actually, that's what my post for - to hear from these who already did conversion (and I know, they're out there somewhere ) so I can learn more and make a final decision (hopefully, it will be interesting for others too).

[StuM]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Ok, but I'd rather hear from real solar panel users, how much energy (kWh) one 300W panel brings per 1 day. Anybody?

My 800 Watts of panels are pushing it to generate over 4kWh on a clear day in summer in the tropics (around 300Ah for my 12V system). And some of that can be wasted because of the rate at which my batteries can absorb it when getting close to full.

[StuM]

[QUOTE=ranchero76;2105355]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Electric motor has max torque at zero RPM, so things look different comparing to diesel. Once again - guy in the video clearly says, that in his opinion 9kW electric motors are way too powerful for 41ft cat.

Which mean they have great bollard pulling power at 0 knots. But there is negligible advantage at cruising speed since the diesel is also around max torque. This electric drive industry propaganda has been debunked in numerous previous threads.


Again, please do research. Solar batteries will generate power even on very cloudy day, from dusk till down, NOT JUST 5 HOURS. So it'll be safe to assume they work 8hrs at 75% (some peak hours more than 75%, some less, but in total in real life it will be more than 8hrs altogether.

You need to do the research. 5-6 hours peak power equivalent is the standard planning figure used when sizing solar systems.

You have to take into account that you are using fixed horizontal panels, so the angle of incidence and therefore insolation is highly dependent on latitude and time of year. In may places, 75% is the maximum you will get at noon for much of the year. For most of the day it will be a lot less.



7.Don't forget about these 2 wind generators, they work no matter what's the wind direction . That's for recovery, when we're sailing again and there is a wind . Useless for propulsion. If there is enough wind to generate any significant output, the sails are much more effective at moving the boat.


It looks like you're just trying to troll me. I clearly stated that wind generators are for topping batteries after they drained, not for propulsion. And they will work in any wind direction.

Have you actually used one in earnest? They generate very little when sailing downwind.

O yea, tell me that 75hp diesel will be as economical as 10kW generator )))))))))))))) That generator will take about 1-2 liters of diesel per hour depending on load. Try that with main diesel NO MATTER WHAT THE LOAD AND RPM

Diesel engines use about 0.225 litre per output HP per hour regardless of the engine size (for all reasonable power ranges). My 40HP diesel uses just about 1 litre per hour at 1800 RPM - which is enough to drive the alternator and heat my hot water tank.

Well I guess your engine is so quiet that you don't need electric motor for sure But there's rest of us, who CAN hear diesel noise and wouldn't mind get rid of it.

On a decent sized cat, the exhaust splashing is indeed about the loadest part of the engine noise.

Note, all of the above points are based on real life experience. not on internet reading.

[ranchero76]

[QUOTE=StuM;2105739]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Note, all of the above points are based on real life experience. not on internet reading.

Thanks for info. So, If your 800W panels give you 4kWh per day, 3.2kW of panels should give 16kWh. My assumption was around 19kWh, so I'm not far from real life . Actually, I was thinking about motorized mounts (to keep panels to the sun), but that would be space/budget permitting. Other option - use more panels, using flexible panels, mount them in these places where flat panels wouldn't fit.

Have you actually used one in earnest? They generate very little when sailing downwind.


I haven't, but I believe you Wind generators - for any situation except two - no wind or sailing downwind Note that I haven't used them in my calculations at all, they're just bonus

My 40HP diesel uses just about 1 litre per hour at 1800 RPM - which is enough to drive the alternator and heat my hot water tank.

40hp uses 1 liter per hour? Hmm, now I'm surprised

On a decent sized cat, the exhaust splashing is indeed about the loadest part of the engine noise.

On many cats, diesels are under aft staterooms (or near). How about that?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by StuM

My 800 Watts of panels are pushing it to generate over 4kWh on a clear day in summer in the tropics (around 300Ah for my 12V system). And some of that can be wasted because of the rate at which my batteries can absorb it when getting close to full.

To generate 4000wh (same as 4kwh) at 800 watts would take...5hr...hence equivalent to 100% output for 5hours even though it's some lesser wattage for a longer time period.

Very similar to what my smaller 110watt solar array generates and the typically assumed value from online sources.