Hey Folks, could I get an opinion??

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Celestial,
I'm glad you were aboard the Ingrid. Afterall you were the Captain and Owner. I couldn't have gone on the sail without you.
JL

[Amgine]

You're gonna have trouble gettin' good advice outta this crew, Bill. They're sailors. Most bloody opinionate class a' good fur nuthin's...

You've undoubtedly been reading up about the designs you're looking at. The HC is well-loved and loathed, has a long history, and there are a very large number of them. There is an active owners network. The builders have changed hands a few times, and the molds were recently moved to a new yard in Thailand and put back into service, so you *might* be able to call on them to help out finding fittings, etc.

I've sailed on two HC 43T for very brief afternoons, both ended in calms and motoring, so I can't say anything really about their sailing capabilities. The first also had a wine cellar, which says something about the roominess, displacement, and the owner's confidence in his bone-dry bilge. A friend (the boat dealer I purchased with) set off on a circumnavigation on hers, and was dismasted in Mexico. Last heard from she was preparing to leave for Hawai'i; the repairs didn't slow her down or shake her confidence in her boat.

[dacust]

Originally Posted by theonecalledtom

That boat looks to be in excellent condition but you should be able to pick an HC33 up a bit cheaper:

1984 Hans Christian Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Well, I'm not a sailboater, but looking at this boat compared to the one Bill is looking at:

Bill' choice has:

• Marine Air
• Monitor Vane
• 2 autopilots
• AirX Generator

And that's just the big ticket items I noticed from a powerboater perspective.

Sounds like that one has been set up for serious cruising. The $31k difference in price could easily be worth it. BUT, that depends on how Bill plans to use it. Might be he don't need them things...

[Randall]

nice looking boat good thing your gona retire you need that time for her up keep to keep her looking like that.

[Ex-Calif]

I am gonna do something a little different - answer your questions.

Originally Posted by Bill Burgette

Does this little boat seem to have all it needs to go sailing?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Bill Burgette

Everyone asks but will she be a bluewater boat?

Yes.

Get a survey and if you love her still, buy her and enjoy your retirement.

You could spend the rest of your life looking for the perfect boat, or you could go near perfect and start enjoying retirement.

BTW - I agree with dacust. You might want to "look" at both boats with an eye for the differences. Haggle hard on the first one and you may not need to eat the beans on toast...

[Bill Burgette]

Thanks guys, yeah, I do like the double ended look. I'm going to take some vacation time in the very near future and go looking at a few of these boats. I've not posted much on here but boy, I sure have read and learned a lot. The knowledge and opinion base on this forum is really world class.

You could spend the rest of your life looking for the perfect boat, or you could go near perfect and start enjoying retirement.

That's the idea. I'd rather not spend my first year off sanding, scraping and painting and replacing. Maintenance is a lot less work than restoration.

[Jmolan]

Bill there is a lot to boat ownership. So many practical things to think about it can make your head swim. I know of a guy who does paid consulting to walk people through boat purchasing. He told me he has clients who make a living buying planes, cars, big equipment etc. But he said almost without fail, it is like their head goes right out the window when they find a boat they like. At least as far as, right size, the amount of work and $ it will need. It is a funny thing this boat love. I mean it is real and a bit dangerous...:-)
All that being said, I am a firm believer that you gotta love it. I mean it has to grab you. It is like a motorcycle. Guys will go on and on about how this is good and this is better....but the bottom line is they love it. It is an emotional purchase.
And there in lies the pleasure and the pain of boat ownership. the love you gotta have (I do) but the same love can get you into a relationship with a very demanding partner if you are not careful. Keep in mind you are in the dating mode. And online dating can be very deceptive. Enjoy the process, after all it is pleasure boating we are doing here.
One thing that helps me when I a looking at a boat, whether just looking or considering buying. I see something I do not like, (like rust stains bleeding from SS rails, or a green pipe in the eng. rm...maybe messy lockers) I think to myself. This is what I can see, what about the 90% of it I cannot see?
Can I get to the rudder inside? Can I access the through hulls? How easy it it to clear the bilge pump? On and On, but this its the stuff that comes back to bite you.
Good luck, let us know how you do!

[imagine2frolic]

Bill,

Sounds like the only problem so far is! You haven't had her surveyed, and written the check for her.........i2f

[James S]

These Hans Christians are lovely, go anywhere boats...
If you like this style you could have a look at the Valiants.

[bob perry]

This argument goes on and on. I think I have designed more double enders than any other designers. I drew double enders because my clinets requested them, mostly for marketing purposes. I have never seen any "magic" in the canoe stern or the double ender in general. (All canoe sterned boats are double enders not all double enders have canoe sterns.) For me it is an aesthetic treatment and one that I like. If you like a nice, shapely pointy stern then that's good enough for me. I like them too. I see a lot of crudely shaped canoe sterns that make me puke. I will not name names but if I did some well known designers would be pounding on my E-door immediately.

Years ago I sat at a posh dinner at the other end of the table from my client. I could hear him describing what I like to call "the Moses effect" how the pointy stern parts the waves and makes the boat immune to being pooped. As I sat there I thought "Really, is that how it works?"

We have double enders because transoms were very hard tobuild in timber. The double ender had essentially and strcuturally two bows so it was easy for the builder. There are some double enders, Colin Archers, that were designed as sailing life boats and these boats had to be efficient going in either direction or no direction at all. What people forget is that some of the original Colin Archer boats were failures.

I once asked a large group of yacht designers to describe the benefits of a double ender. I was getting ready to write and article that eventually came out (heaviliy edited in YACHTING years ago. No body could give me a good reason for putting points on both ends of the boat. Bill Crealock said he knew why double enders were better sea boats but he was willing to explain why. Olin Stephens just said no.

Today what I think is this. The way you handle the last 10% of the boats LOA is not going to make much difference in the overall performance of the boat providinfg you don't do anything weird. There are a lot of arguments for transoms. There are few for double enders.

Except, they can look pretty and they satisfy something inside of us that likes that shape. As I said years ago about the V 40, "it's a shape you like to pat."

Give me a few moments to re-pile the sandbags in front of the office then let fly.

[TaoJones]

Thanks for your input, Bob. It's always a treat to be schooled by an outspoken master!

Here's a link to a stern view of the boat in question:

1983 33' Hans Christian HC-33 Stern photo

Am I correct in understanding from your post that such a stern treatment is neither more nor less likely to be pooped? You state that there are a lot of arguments for transoms, and few for double-enders; what would those few be?

Thanks again for taking the time to add to the discussion, Bob.

TaoJones

[James S]

Mine is a canoe stern and I love the look of it...I also like to think it's better in a following sea...whether or not it really is, I don’t care, as long as I think it is, it's enough!

However, I give up a lot: more space in the aft cabin and aft deck, transom steps, easy davits and stern boarding ramp.

[bob perry]

Tao:
Apart from the appealing look of a double ender I can't really think of any advantages unless you plan on doing your cirncumnavigation is reverse.

If you want to stretch the argument a bit and compart the typical double ender (don't generalize Bob) you could say that compared to the wide sterned boats of today the DE maintains more balance to it's heeled waterlines meaning the shape of the hull doesn't change too much as the boat heels. This can result in a boat that has a more predictable helm thru a wide range of heel angles. Maybe, if everything else has been done right.

[Cheechako]

Amazingly clean boat. However once you start using it, it likely wont be. Whatever you do, do not pay more than $89k for that boat. Although listed higher, HC 38's tend to go under $100k and often $90-95... even though they start out much higher. (and this is pre-recession numbers) Also make sure it has plenty of Horsepower, it will need it. I forgot to look at that on the ad.

[Cheechako]

Consider the Fast Passage 39, one of my favorite double enders ever. $119k Long keel, skeg hung rudder, well built, fast for a cruiser and the prettiest stern I've seen this side of Rico's Bar! 1981 Fast Passage FP 39 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com