Do I need a radar reflector?

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

You don't require one by USCG regulation,

Is the US not signed up to SOLAS?

[PLANET EXPRESS]

If you are rotating and radiating any other systems in range and on. Will receive The signals your radar is putting out. If it is off then it’s left up to their system to receive signals bounced back from you. For which a reflector would help.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by conachair

Is the US not signed up to SOLAS?

you need to ask? lol

I could be wrong here because I have not looked at this in years, but my understanding was that us flagged vessels on international voyages were required to meet parts (but not all of) of solas. Vessels only in domestic waters do not need to. And very clearly reflectors are NOT on the USCG required equipment list for small pleasure vessels.

correct me if I am wrong, but SOLAS is really a red hearing in any case for small yachts, because none of the yachting size passive reflectors meet the specified rcs (across the specified angles), and so there is a catch all clause in the solas regulation which say something like " as well as practical" - which just means whatever any enforcement officer wants it to mean.

[RaymondR]

I am very impressed with the performance of my dopler radar and it is sensitive enough to show an intermittent return from a flock of passing birds. However, one of the worrying aspects has been the poor returns from quiet large FG motor cruisers. In contrast it picks up small tinnies quiet well at long ranges.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

This question dawned on me the other day.

My boat has a radar but no radar reflector. My last boat did not have a radar but did have a cylinder reflector on the mast. I have looked around other boats in my marina and noted that those with radar did not have the cylinder radar reflector as well. Is this because if you have a radar and assuming it is on or on standby this also acts as a reflector? And if the radar is switched off (which mine is most of the time to conserve battery) does this mean I have no reflector. Probably a bit of a dumb question but would appreciate those who are in the know.

Thanks

Hang the largest reflector you can. Clorox bottles don't reflect well.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

Quite a number of local coastal 'cruisers' could/would fall into those exceptions. And you are being disingenuous when you quote a law, but only include the part that suits you and don't mention you are leaving out the part that does not suit your story.

No "coastal cruiser" would fall under those exceptions - those only refer to areas where you could not likely encounter commercial vessels using radar, such as inland lakes and rivers, or where the vessel is small and in confined waters such as sailing dinghies or kayaks. Canada is not the only jurisdiction that makes radar reflectors mandatory on small recreational vessels - and since I don't know the location of the OP, it was only put up as an example. I omitted what I thought to be pointless exceptions to avoid clouding the issue with pointless tangents - but that tactic is evidently not foolproof.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by PLANET EXPRESS

If you are rotating and radiating any other systems in range and on. Will receive The signals your radar is putting out. If it is off then it’s left up to their system to receive signals bounced back from you. For which a reflector would help.

Radars don't typically pick up the signals from other radars, other than as random noise (running rabbits, etc).

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

This question dawned on me the other day.

My boat has a radar but no radar reflector. My last boat did not have a radar but did have a cylinder reflector on the mast. I have looked around other boats in my marina and noted that those with radar did not have the cylinder radar reflector as well. Is this because if you have a radar and assuming it is on or on standby this also acts as a reflector? And if the radar is switched off (which mine is most of the time to conserve battery) does this mean I have no reflector. Probably a bit of a dumb question but would appreciate those who are in the know.

Thanks

Having RADAR lets you see reflective objects like land, metal buoys, ships and other boats; it does not perform as a reflector. If your boat is metal then you probably can get by without one as your boat per se is one big reflector. However, your boat is most likely fiberglass and a RADAR reflector would aid in other RADAR using boats getting a better reflective return from your boat and see you.

On my previous 28' fiberglass boat I used a Davis Echomaster aluminum refector hoisted on the flag line when needed...I have seen others permanently mounted up high on the backstay. They do an excellent job in letting other RADAR users see you but you still need to look out for other boats not using anything like local fisherman in small boats.

For additional safety an AIS is an exceptional device. As your posted concern appears being seen by others, I would recommend a Class B "transceiver" that would allow ships and other AIS equipped boats see you in addition to you seeing them. Do your research into AIS before making your purchase.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[svhydra]

hi everyone; if the conversation is only about "do I need a radar reflector?" and nothing else, for me the answer is a simple no. stand on your deck and look up. see all that gear made of metal on your rig, there's your reflector.

[doog]

Taking this question from the other end, now that we have spent thousands installing radar, are we to understand that the other vessels out there may be invisible without a radar reflector, or rocks and floating logs and containers?? I pick up seagulls on my old Raytheon and now I am wondering if I might not pick up a plastic boat with insufficient reflective surface?? And sure I have a nice reflector guaranteed to do the job but suddenly I have far less confidence in the radar's ability to detect potential hazards after reading all this.

[Pizzazz]

I do not think you need a radar reflector. May be if you had a wooden mast, it could make sense.

If you have a properly set up radar, you will pick up anything, kayaks, small buoys, etc. If you mess up your radar settings (for example you dial the sea state too high) you will not see much near you radar reflector or not. The metal mast has a bigger cross section than most reflectors, anyway. Having a radar reflector may instill a false sense of security that others will see you. They will not.

Learn how to use your radar and use it to its max potential when conditions warrant. The big things that pose a danger to you all have AIS and probably a capable operator with a powerful radar. Yet, in fog/rain they may use only their S-band radar and you are unlikely to show on that. So, the second best investment is an AIS transceiver. The foremost is your training and alertness.

[KP44]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

If you are really concerned about it, like you sail a lot in shipping lanes, then look for an active reflector, they actually receive a signal and send one back out. That makes you appear to be a much larger target than a regular reflector.

On airplanes we call that a transponder. And I think the same for marine. It detects a radar signal and sends back an amplified signal.
If you are concerned about not being seen, a transponder could put your mind at ease.
Good seamanship and diligently keeping watch has always seemed better to me than depending upon someone else to see me and watch out for me.

[peter loveridge]

western Nova Scotia has on average 120 days of fog a year and in fog the visibility is usually less than 100 feet. There are 2000 fishing boats in this region. Most are less than 10 years old, 50+ feet long and have all the electronics you ever dreamt of, often in duplicate. Everyone of them has a permanent passive reflector. I've never seen an active one. Most have AIS, but it is often switched off

[KadeyKrogen38]

Fiberglass does not reflect radar beams. It passes through. If you want a chance to be seen on radar, you need something that will return the radar sweeps, or a working AIS Transmitter.

[Chuck Hawley]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

From what I understand, they are most susceptible to angles they have, hence I put two on two shrouds at different angles, so they can cover a broader range of heeling angles.

I think you're speaking of the 2" diameter MOBRI reflectors, which sailors frequently put on their diagonal or cap shrouds in an attempt to have them be oriented vertically when the boat is sailing at some angle of heel.

I was a co-author with Stan Honey and Jim Corenman on the 1995 SRI Radar Reflector Test, and while my memory of all the details has faded somewhat, I remember that it was wonderful to have the lab at SRI available to use, as well as to work with Stan, Jim, the late Dick Honey, and others in the lab.

I think the biggest issue with both the 2" and 4" Mobri reflectors is their size (radius) is near the wavelength of X-band radar and far smaller than S-band radar, making them close to invisible. As you point out, they are also extremely sensitive to inclination because while they have small corner reflector "pockets", they are extremely small. The Mobris really only work over a very small angle when they are perpendicular to the incoming signal, using two surfaces for reflection, which is highly sensitive to angle.

The Lensref was the radar reflector that caught my eye since it worked absolutely uniformly over 360 degrees of azimuth, and 18 degrees of heel. I think it had a 2.4M2 RCS, which wasn't as much as the peaks from the octahedral reflectors, but it had no nulls. I worked with Harken to create a swivel base from which the Lensref would be hung under a spreader to increase its effective angle of heel, but I never brought it to market.

I think the SRI study is still valuable, although modern graphing software and some new radar reflector designs make it pretty dated.

Chuck Hawley