1st time buyer: IP 350's - comparable boats?

[Ralph71]

One useful thing about this forum is that most people tell you what they're sailing and where. So you can look at the boat and see what it has and what they're doing with it.

Even here in the Northeast US, where we get plenty of foul weather, I would've never considered a pilothouse, but when you ask about cruising in the Salish Sea, lots of the people who respond have a boat with a pilothouse.

After listening to them/watching their videos/watching them talk to each other/reading their weather reports, now you're adding pilothouse to your list of things to consider if you plan to buy a boat to cruise the Salish Sea. (Which would rule out IPs, e.g.)

That kind of thing.

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Thanks Ned and fully understand. Which is why I was seeking advice from people who know IPs AND 'comparable' boats. To stick with your example: I've considered the question of pilothouse and concluded that 98% of my sailing will be done in the warmer climates. I didn't add ALL these things into my OP as I didn't want to go overboard/bore people to death. Maybe I should haven been clearer that I favored IP 350 because I sailed on her (once) AND after doing some research (and because there's a good supply of them).

[dougweibel]

Originally Posted by Ralph71

But the ONE thing missing is crowdsourced opinions on which is the best boat for that. I know there's no 100% perfect boat (and "experience is more important than the boat" etc.) but I want to at least get it 75 or 80% right. There's thousands (!) of yrs experience such boats on this forum. That all I seek - advice from people who know much more than I do.

Advice you can get but don't expect anything like consensus. I think the Mahina webpage is about as good of a single list as you will find. My boat is on that list and I respect John Neal, but there are many folks with firm criteria in their mind for what a 'bluewater boat' must be and who will tell you that my boat is wholly unsuitable for crossing oceans.

One of the problems with soliciting opinions on ocean cruising boats is that they tend to be lower production volume boats so there are just fewer people around with direct experience.

A good exercise would be to take John Neal's list and go through a Yachtworld search with filters. You can limit your search area to the US (or even cut it down to the Northeast and/or mid-Atlantic) and see the general availability and price of boats on that list at present. My advice is to not get locked in to a single model of boat, but rather come up with a short list. Even though you may have more choices with an IP there may be a really choice Cabo Rico (or whatever) on the market at the same time that you could miss if you limit your search too narrowly.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by Ralph71

I did like the IP 350 and when I did my research (post sail) on her, she seemed to tick all the boxes....What I do know for sure though is that the Hunter 28 I sail on now would not be fit for my purposes.....
So I guess what I was hoping for is someone on this forum who knows (owned?) an IP 350 AND another comparable boat and who can tell me "both good but IP better..." OR "hated the IP bc too slow - bought an XX instead - much better..." Of course, that is just one person's opinion but it would be a starting point and would allow me to investigate further - maybe add that boat to my shortlist, maybe throw it out... I've noticed there's plenty of delivery guys here - hell, they must know, no? Does this make any sense?

IP350 ticks all the boxes 'on paper,' yes.
I obviously didn't mean go buy a Hunter 28 instead of an IP350. You at least know how a fin keel feels like sailing, that's what I said.
There is only one boat on your list, because there are not many other 10 -15 yr old full keel sailboats at that price in that length range.
The minute you add other keels on your list, you will have a dozen of boats to choose from and save some of your money.
https://youtu.be/tfgzCwNm4Ps
https://youtu.be/hvgeXDHDnvs
https://youtu.be/gbFA3Eyw74Q
https://youtu.be/z5m9yT06Khg
You don't have to respond to this. Good luck to you.

[lyl]

https://youtu.be/VxthF9o9k0Y
what is this guy's boat?

[NedX]

Originally Posted by Full

https://youtu.be/VxthF9o9k0Y
what is this guy's boat?

The famous Contessa 35.

[shmorrell]

I’m on the same path as you. One builder that I have been looking at is Caliber. I’m not sure if I want a full keel, but the second best option is a fin keel that’s built in (encapsulated?)not bolted on. A supported rudder is also a must have. The LRC Calibers also have huge tankage, robust fuel management systems, and smart electrical design. They have some great brochures with loads of information on their site. Check em out.

Steve

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by Ralph71

I thought it would be helpful to provide the IP 350 as a reference point, hoping that some kind soul (who can put that boat into context) can provide names of 'comparable' boats. Because I have no idea where to start.

There are not too many alternatives in that size. Take a look at Caliber and Tayana.

Another alternative is to get a bigger or newer production boat.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Ralph71

Which is why I thought it would be helpful to provide the IP 350 as a reference point, hoping that some kind soul (who can put that boat into context) can provide names of 'comparable' boats. Because I have no idea where to start. If I like a car in the parking lot, I walk around, look a the badge and do some research. How do I do that here?

Ralph, by giving Island Packet as your reference point boat, what it conveys is that you need to sail a LOT more. IPs are poor-sailing, cumbersome, poor-manouvering boats with big roomy interiors that attract a person for whom the living space takes precedence. That may or may not describe you.

If you're going sailing - truly sailing - you'll want a boat that sails better than those things. The only way you'll find that out is by sailing on a lot of boats and finding out what elements you like/don't like.

That's the short answer to your question. You've made a good solid start. Keep sailing.

LittleWing77

P.S. Ask yourself: In a red-hot market where all the "good" boats have been snapped up, why are there so many IPs still for sale?

[flee27]

Ralph71 I hope my post didn't come across wrong. Only trying to be helpful. The boat is important if you are going to be offshore for sure. I guess IMO and what I was trying to say is there is a long list of capable boat in your price range (all will require some work to get "ready"). As suggested make your list of wants/requirements and filter boats by that. If it is a full keel then there is nothing wrong with that. Just don't focus too hard that a full keel (as an example) is mandatory this early in your search. Be open minded and get more focused as you sort it out. And remembering a boat is as much an emotional purchase and a practical one, the boat will let you know it should be on the short list. You are in a great area to see lots of different boats and talk to lots of people with different experiences.

All I could further offer of the subject is my thoughts when buying my boat. I have more sailing experience than you and have sailed on and done some charter vacations on different boats. So...I wanted a boat that sailed well. I enjoy sailing as well as the travel/voyaging aspect. I also enjoy working on my boat and do 99% of all the work. I wanted a boat that I felt could cross oceans and be enjoyable to day sail. Draft was also a concern. My budget was around the same as yours knowing I still had some years to work on my boat before much long distance travel was an option. I do not plan on living on my boat and also don't plan of checking out and traveling the world on my boat full time. I would love to do that but my wife would not. When I think of a sailboat I think of the classic (to me) shape of the boats from the 70's-80's- I like the wood interiors and the "feel" of these boats. Nothing wrong with the newer modern boats but they don't speak to me. I have always loved the way Sabre's look, and they have a good reputation. I wanted a Sabre 38 with centerboard. While looking I found a 42 before I found a 38 that worked. I went back and further on the longer boat but in the end decided to get it. Still relatively new in the ownership of this boat but to this point I do love the boat and I am very happy with my purchase. Hopefully my enjoyment will continue and this will continue to be the right boat for me.

Again good luck with your search. Keep doing what you are doing by asking questions, sailing on as many boats as you can, and trust the right boat will make itself clear to you. Ultimately you can always sell a boat and buy another one if you decide at some point the one you end up with is not right for you and your circumstances. As stressful as the purchasing process can be just remember to have fun and enjoy the adventure.

Foster

[Ralph71]

First of all, thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post. Your feedback was all very helpful and much appreciated. I now understand that my mistake was to provide the IP 350 (= full keel) as my point of reference which turned off a lot of CF members. What I SHOULD have said is the following:
- looking for a solid, proven cruiser in the 34-38ft range as it is likely just me +1 max
- the purpose of the boat will be for full-time live-aboard and going A->B->C .... ->A. With B and C being FAR away so this is for real ocean crossings, not coastal cruising.
- I have no plans to race and thus not looking for fastest boat but comfort and safety
- Ideally a boat 10-15 yrs old, price range $75-125K. Have $$ for refit but don't want to spend yrs on repair/upgrade. I want a boat that's ready to go (within 1-2 yrs).
Does that work better?

[Ralph71]

[QUOTE=shmorrell;3319979]I’m on the same path as you. One builder that I have been looking at is Caliber. I’m not sure if I want a full keel, but the second best option is a fin keel that’s built in (encapsulated?)not bolted on. A supported rudder is also a must have. The LRC Calibers also have huge tankage, robust fuel management systems, and smart electrical design. They have some great brochures with loads of information on their site. Check em out.

Steve

--------
Thanks Steve, much appreciated. Not married to IP, just want safe boat. Will ad Calibers to my list. Had heard of them but will now take closer look... Thanks

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Ralph71

Hello everyone. First time buyer looking for some advice on which boats are comparable to IP 350.

Here’s my background (as someone may ask). I’m in year 2 of my 3-yr plan to become live-aboard cruiser with big plans (no, I will not use the C-word). Note that I have some past experience sailing on Lasers AND have lived/ worked on a 300 ft tall ship when in was doing my 2-yr mandatory military service in the Navy).
Year 1: completed ASA 101-104, read dozens of books (Slocum, Moitessier, Pardeys, Cornell etc) and joined local boat club (which provides me free use of a 28 ft Hunter which I’ve skippered single-handed few times last summer)
Year 2: signed up for ASA 105/106, will take more courses (marine diesel, electrics, weather etc). Will also try to get out more on other boats - which was tough last year due to Covid (if anyone in the Annapolis area is looking for crew for day or weekend trips, please let me know!!)
Year 3: buy the boat and start living the dream...

So far so good (but please tell me if I’m missing anything here...) but here’s the problem. The next big step is deciding which boat to buy. And for that I could really need some advice. My point of reference is the Island Packet 350. It’s the only “bluewater” cruiser I’ve sailed on (friend’s boat) once and I liked what I saw. Yes, I know (from this forum only as I lack benchmark) that “Island Piglets” are slow, not great upwind and a PITA to maneuver in tight marinas. But I like the idea of full keel for safety and I’m not too worried about speed (don't care if I arrive 1-2 days later). Oh, and I like the fact that there’s several boats in my range ($75-150k) in the Annapolis area (as I have no plans to fixate on a boat of which no more than 2 are for sale in the entire US at any given time...)

But I also don't want to decide on a particular boat without at least investigating alternatives. So my question to the forum is: which boats in the 34-38 ft range (as it will only be me and, hopefully, one significant other) are comparable to the IP 350?! Again, selection criteria are:
- full keel or similar (I know fin keels are faster but I want sth forgiving when I ground her)
- sloop or cutter rig, 34-38 ft
- Year built? I’d prefer sth younger (10-15 yrs) as I want to sail off without spending months repairing or refitting (I assume that’s realistic in $75-150K price range?!). But perhaps an older boats that’s fully refitted works, too?
- Draft is a question I have: I would assume the first 1-2 yrs will be spent sailing in the Chesapeake and Bahamas - both shallow. But after that I plan to sail to the Med and beyond so a deeper draft makes sense for ocean crossings... Is there a compromise?

Not sure if I covered it all. In summary, a solid, proven bluewater cruiser (no production boats), ideally one that has all the advantages of an IP but maybe less of the disadvantages (speed, maneuverability). But maybe that’s asking too much? Open to suggestions, esp. from people who’ve sailed (or owned) different boats that fit the above criteria so can provide advice.

Thank you very much in advance for helping me with this. I know the experienced members here get these questions from us newbies all the time but please know how much we appreciate you taking the time to help us. Very grateful indeed.

Regards, Ralph

Here's an interesting You Tube review on the Island Packet. This is from a Canadian guy who does a nice job of supplying background info on many popular cruisers. Like most Canadians, he tends to be overly polite and open minded about many brands we eshew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn2hWsSGMiQ

. Yes, the IP is built like a brick outhouse and won't win many races but will get you there eventually. If TSHTF it'll be on you and not the boat.

[Ralph71]

[QUOTE=flee27;3320054]Ralph71 I hope my post didn't come across wrong. Only trying to be helpful. The boat is important if you are going to be offshore for sure. I guess IMO and what I was trying to say is there is a long list of capable boat in your price range (all will require some work to get "ready"). As suggested make your list of wants/requirements and filter boats by that. If it is a full keel then there is nothing wrong with that. Just don't focus too hard that a full keel (as an example) is mandatory this early in your search. Be open minded and get more focused as you sort it out. And remembering a boat is as much an emotional purchase and a practical one, the boat will let you know it should be on the short list. You are in a great area to see lots of different boats and talk to lots of people with different experiences.

All I could further offer of the subject is my thoughts when buying my boat. I have more sailing experience than you and have sailed on and done some charter vacations on different boats. So...I wanted a boat that sailed well. I enjoy sailing as well as the travel/voyaging aspect. I also enjoy working on my boat and do 99% of all the work. I wanted a boat that I felt could cross oceans and be enjoyable to day sail. Draft was also a concern. My budget was around the same as yours knowing I still had some years to work on my boat before much long distance travel was an option. I do not plan on living on my boat and also don't plan of checking out and traveling the world on my boat full time. I would love to do that but my wife would not. When I think of a sailboat I think of the classic (to me) shape of the boats from the 70's-80's- I like the wood interiors and the "feel" of these boats. Nothing wrong with the newer modern boats but they don't speak to me. I have always loved the way Sabre's look, and they have a good reputation. I wanted a Sabre 38 with centerboard. While looking I found a 42 before I found a 38 that worked. I went back and further on the longer boat but in the end decided to get it. Still relatively new in the ownership of this boat but to this point I do love the boat and I am very happy with my purchase. Hopefully my enjoyment will continue and this will continue to be the right boat for me.

Again good luck with your search. Keep doing what you are doing by asking questions, sailing on as many boats as you can, and trust the right boat will make itself clear to you. Ultimately you can always sell a boat and buy another one if you decide at some point the one you end up with is not right for you and your circumstances. As stressful as the purchasing process can be just remember to have fun and enjoy the adventure.

Foster

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Thank you very much Foster and not at all - I'm truly grateful for all insights given my limited experience. I'm glad you found the "right" boat for you in the end and I will def check out Sabres. My only concern is the amount of time this search takes... I'm not 30 anymore so can't spend years searching for the "perfect" boat that doesn't exist. Better to buy 85% right and learn to live with flaws.

[Ralph71]

There are not too many alternatives in that size. Take a look at Caliber and Tayana.

Another alternative is to get a bigger or newer production boat.

------
Thank you very much and will add to my search. I believe Tayanas mostly come with teak decks - which I "learned" on this forum is better to stay away from?!
Bigger and newer production boat come with extra length (and cabins) which I simply don't need/want for short-handed (or single-hand) crew

[thomm225]

The thing about full keel boats is that you get one that is very seaworthy at a very low price; $2,000 and up.

They are good as a first boat because you won't know how much you will be sailing until you actually buy.

There are lots of beautiful boats at the marinas that are rarely used.

I've had my boat for 9 years now and sail the lower Bay mainly as far North as Tangier to near Pocomoke and out as far as Chesapeake Light.

It's a good seaworthy boat, and it was basically free at $2,000.

Just something to consider.

I was caught in winds over 30 knots in the bay this passed September and the boat did great crossing the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay even with too much sail up.

There's another guy an here that bought his Bristol 27 for $1,000 and sailed it across the Pacific, Indian, and Atlantic Oceans.