Will a 2023 boat also last 50 years?

[stevead]

Otherwise, I think Tasmania may be the timber boat building heart of Australia, and they may have counterparts in Europe and other areas. Right now, suitable timber is very expensive to acquire....

There was a rather lame panel discussion at the Wooden Boat Festival in Hobart the other week. Traditional boat builders are complaining that the availability of Australian boat building timbers such as Huon & Celery Top pine is limited.

However modern construction techniques (strip planking, cold moulding) can be used to build a better boat, that doesn't leak, limits the risk of rot, uses timber much more economically and can use other timber species that are readily available and can be harvested more sustainably.

The limited stocks of those boat building timbers should be reserved for the repair and restoration of traditional carvel or clinker boats, where the use of reclaimed timber or modern techniques such as lamination which can be used for the structural components auch as keels, frames, beams etc. is not appropriate.

[Goodxcharly]

Having owned both, old and new coastal cruising sailboats, 1979 to 2003. The newer boats are way more thought out, dryer cabins, and don’t waste materials where they are not needed. Older boats were overbuilt for the unknown and I don’t think there intentions were for them lasting 50 years.
Another thing I noticed is you don’t get the crazing on newer boats like you do old ones.
Pryor to the oil embargo of the 70’s oil was cheap and so was fiberglass and resin. Post embargo most sailboat manuf. went out of business, materials cost went up and economics probably had something to do with it too.

FWIW

[jalmberg]

My boat is going on 50 years, and made her 12th Atlantic crossing last summer, but I can tell you she didn’t last 50 years without a lot of time and money being lavished on her! Like a lot of beautiful 50 year old gals, she’s ‘had work done’ !

[CliveCollett]

In answer to the OP's question, it depends. In response to all the nay sayers about production boats, also, it depends. If you keep the water on the outside and look after the rest then I dont see any issues. Most marinas are full of older boats still afloat. The inland waters ways are awash with 40, 50 and even 60 year old boats from premium builders and production models alike.
I have seen 60 year old GRP production boats gutted and refitted.

[sailorboy1]

There is a trend of new boat designs and builds targeting the charter market with an expiration date of 5-7 years in a fleet.


50 year-old monohulls are still around, but they were built differently back then.
[/QUOTE]

The maintenance and age for the chater boats don't a
Have anything to poo with how a boat will last. It has to with the charter not really wanting to maintain the boats

Yes boats were built different 50 years ago. They weren't as good

[aqfishing]

Boats must be used and not stand idle!

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Yes boats were built different 50 years ago. They weren't as good

You should post that over on the "S&S Swan Association" forum and see what kind of responses you'll get.

[rslifkin]

I think the big difference is that modern construction is more optimized. In other words, we actually have a good idea of how strong stuff is, etc. The old builds weren't as optimized, so some turned out to be very durable and last far longer than the designers expected them to, while others turned out to be junk. I think we're less likely to get those surprises at this point and could more reasonably assess whether a given boat will hold up well long term (given appropriate maintenance).

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

On the electronics thing, the vast majority of the 37 year old wiring on my boat is still in good shape. A few things have needed re terminating and a couple have been rewired, but most is original. And there's far more wiring in my boat that most similar age sailboats. Much of the actual electronics has been replaced, but that's a much smaller job than re wiring.

+1
My old girl is 37 this year also and is holding up well. Her teak deck is even in reasonably good shape for its age.
She is on her third electronics upgrade since I have owned her, (14 years) and I have added and replaced a fair amount of wiring. But then of course she was built in Finland for the north sea.
She is still sailing and serving me well!
From looking at boats at the Annapolis boat show I do not think that the new ones will last nearly as long or as well.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I think the big difference is that modern construction is more optimized. In other words, we actually have a good idea of how strong stuff is, etc. The old builds weren't as optimized, so some turned out to be very durable and last far longer than the designers expected them to, while others turned out to be junk. I think we're less likely to get those surprises at this point and could more reasonably assess whether a given boat will hold up well long term (given appropriate maintenance).

I was in Oriental North Carolina after hurricane Florence and I saw lots of boats come in to the boat yards that had blown up on shore, and a couple of them that I saw a large hole punched through the hull. I don’t remember the makes but they were fairly new models, and I was amazed, make that VERY amazed, at how thin their hulls were compared to older builds. And these were just normal boats, not Race boats.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by svfinlandia

I was in Oriental North Carolina after hurricane Florence and I saw lots of boats come in to the boat yards that had blown up on shore, and a couple of them that I saw a large hole punched through the hull. I don’t remember the makes but they were fairly new models, and I was amazed, make that VERY amazed, at how thin their hulls were compared to older builds. And these were just normal boats, not Race boats.

Al, S/V Finlandia

That's definitely a product of that more optimized design and construction. The newer builds are lighter and built thinner in many cases, as we know how much fiberglass it takes to make them survive the expected loads (plus some safety margin). Back in the old days, it was more of "we don't really know how strong this is, so just add some extra". Which led to some boats being heavier than needed as they were practically bomb-proof despite the designer only intending for it to survive a fraction of that.

[Joe Okros]

My Morgan OI 36 built for the charter trade is 50 this year, she does what I want and will probably outlive me. The throwaway society makes me sick, a lot of the ills that beset the world is down to rampant consumerism and this idea a car or a boat must last only 5 years. My Honda CRV is 20 this year and will also probably outlive me.
For many people, the price of a car or boat is equal to at least a few years of income. For that kind of many it bloody better well last.

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That's definitely a product of that more optimized design and construction. The newer builds are lighter and built thinner in many cases, as we know how much fiberglass it takes to make them survive the expected loads (plus some safety margin). Back in the old days, it was more of "we don't really know how strong this is, so just add some extra". Which led to some boats being heavier than needed as they were practically bomb-proof despite the designer only intending for it to survive a fraction of that.

If you can punch a hole in the hull by running the boat aground, it doesn’t sound very “optimized” to me.
It’s nice that they are lighter and they can sail faster and they probably have more creature comforts aboard, but give me a good old heavy cruiser anytime for offshore work.
Keep a good watch and don’t hit a floating log ot container!

Al, S/V Finlandia

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That's definitely a product of that more optimized design and construction. The newer builds are lighter and built thinner in many cases, as we know how much fiberglass it takes to make them survive the expected loads (plus some safety margin). Back in the old days, it was more of "we don't really know how strong this is, so just add some extra". Which led to some boats being heavier than needed as they were practically bomb-proof despite the designer only intending for it to survive a fraction of that.

I think that's a bit over the top.
Do you really think that designers purposefully design a boat to only last a few years?
If so, then they need to go back to being a fashion designer for women's clothing.
I've read the lay-up specs that S&S proscribed for the PJ 43 as built by Nautor/Swan, they were quite specific as to the total weights and resin contents.
They also spoke to the need for "lightness", but did not allow lightness to compromise strength.
"Heavier than needed" is not so great in aircraft, but it is "just right" on a cruising boat, whether power or sail.
Optimization? yeah, that why the modern car gets involved in what used to be called a "fender bender" and gets written off as a total loss, (a throw away item if you will).
I think that perhaps some of today's "designers" need some help from a "Naval Architect" or a real engineer, (or need to read Skenes).
Edit, how about in the next GGR race they have a class for the Hunters/Jennies/Bennies, and see how the "optimization" of design works out.

[MistyCat]

To respond to Op’s question: will a new boat today last 50 years? My answer: depends on the boat, and the maintenance. As always. I would guess that older boats today, of good build, have at least as good or better chance of long term survival as new boats today in same class, due to owners savvy and willingness to engage in boat maintenance. The boats select their owners, and there is no question that most newer boats are skimpier in the scantlings than older boats. And May attract less responsible owners. In some cases. If the boat is good to start with, it has a better chance of attracting a responsible owner.