Rope Clutch setup

[exranger]

Hi guys! thought I'd ask for some more advice on my refit of a 1973 Catalina 27!!

I am adding rope clutches. I have 2 doubles and a single (looking for another single).

I don't have winches on my cabin roof near the hatch, but I could move a set there.

I was thinking about the doubles on each side of the companionway slider. Then singles on the port and starboard edges for the jib sheets.

Question: What should I dedicate the top ones to? (the doubles). I thought the main and jib, one on each side.

I got the doubles very cheaply, that's why the horse is coming before the cart! lol

thanks!

[delmarrey]

How many lines do you have running up your mast? And what are they?

[Pblais]

I'm not sure I would use clutches for Jib sheets. They don't adjust as easy as you might like.

Anything else would be fair game. Halyards and reefing lines would be nice. For a Travler I would prefer on it a cam cleat. If you can locate the winch aft of the clutch you can get good winching through the clutch.

[SG]

Furthering Paul's observations:

The rope clutch necessarily has some friction when open. It will not "blow" like you'd want a sheet to ease-out; further, you can get a "kink" or other block if you coil the lines. I would NOT use them for sheets of any kind -- except in an emergency (like a storm jib).

Beyond that, there is some abrasion that you'll experience that cause line wear from the clutches. This usually isn't an issue with very good clutches AND line that is of compatible and quality construction -- but regardless, if you have a line that is being cycled many times a day, then I'd not use these unless you're a "cost" is no object or "replacement" isn't a problem from a suppy and convenience stanpoint.

Further, I think that the ability to tension the line MIGHT work for your reefing lines -- as long as you don't try to do this on the fly instead of with NO load on the sails. Obviously it's preferable to reef in advance before raising the sail -- but sometimes you need to be able to deal with it while under way. Then you have the issue of line or sail stretch, which usually makes being able to tension the clew if not the tack too. If you can't, then you can get by without winches for reefing lines.

[Weyalan]

Clutches are best for halyards. Definitely use a clutch for your Mainsail halyard, your Genoa halyard and for your Jib halyard, if you have one.

You can also use clutches for any of the following (if you have them):
Spinnaker halyard
Mainsail out-haul
Mainsail topping lift
Spinnaker pole topping lift
Spinnaker pole dowh-haul
Reef lines
Cunningham
Boom vang
Some of the above have sufficiently low loads that standard cam-cleats can be used instead of clutches. In some cases, cam cleats are probably better than clutches because you can let 'em off faster.

I would strongly advise against using clutches for sheets. With many clutches, once they are loaded up, you have to winch them on an inch or so in order to be able to release them. Frankly, when you need to dump your headsail in a hurry, you NEED to dump it FAST...you don't want to have to find a winch handle, fit it onto the winch, winch and then release your clutch (you will probably be washing the wind-gear by this stage :P


In summary: Definitely use clutches for all your halyards. Anything else is a bonus.

I have 12 clutches on my cabin top, and 4 cam cleats...too many ropes!

[exranger]

Thanks, to everyone. I didn't know you should not use clutches for jib sheets. I thought the ability to release the jib sheet quickly would come in handy while tacking, etc., but I see the consensus is that they are not good for that. I didn't know they needed an inch or two off the strain to release properly (never had them, but like the idea).

[SG]

That's not true for my Lewmars -- They release under load. I don't know who'd clutches require a load release, but not ours.

[Weyalan]

The fact that some clutches do not release well/at all under high load is not a design feature, but a design fault. Some of the Spinlocl XT clutches do this, and they are not exactly cheap clutches.

[Charlie]

Just to throw in my two cents worth. I think that the loads need to be considered. I have worked some clutches where there was no need to crank up the clutch others where you did. In terms of using them for sheets (I believe you have a Catalina 27 correct Ex RAnger?) I don't think that the loads on that boat would cause a problem for two reasons 1) the load from the sail is fairly small and 2) the main load of the sail is going to be taken up on the wich anyway. I would not use them on sheets unless I was trying to share a winch say switching from a Spin to a Jib sheet. A second reason not to use them is the price compared to a cam cleat is excessive. I believe clutches are best used when yo are trying to do multiple things with one wench.

[Weyalan]

Charlie is right - for a headsail sheet, once you have turns on the winch, the load is largely taken by the winch, so a simple cam-cleat will do fine for locking the sheet off. A cam cleat is faster to release than a clutch and a fraction of the cost.

[SG]

I wouldn't depend on a cam cleat unless you had very low loads and want to replace your line a lot. I'd also worry about a line jumping our of the cam cleat -- I suppose a cam cleat with some protections to keep the line in place would be somewhat more secure. Do you use cam cleats for sheets on that VandeStadt 40, Weyalan.

[Charlie]

I've used the cam cleats on boats up to 40' (Farr 40 one ton). The load is almost completely taken off from the wraps around the winch. On the boats that I raced on none of them had problems with sheets being chewed up. And if their is a problem with them you can adjust the length of your bowline and change where the sheet goes into the cam cleat. You can also end for end the sheet.

[exranger]

I thought rope clutches would be faster and easier than cam cleats, but the prevailing opinions seems to be that they are not??

[jim lee]

Cam cleat goes -after- the wench. Rope clutches go -before- the wench.

My machine (35') uses camcleats for the primary wenches and the runner wenches. I love 'em for that. Rope clutches for the halyards and reefing lines.

I had a cal 27 I setup with a triple rope clutch on the mast for the three halyards along with a mast mounted wench. It was a great setup.

Good luck with it!

-jim lee

[Weyalan]

I don't think wenches take too kindly to having ropes wrapped round them. More power to you if you've found one who is into that sort of stuff though