Heavy weather, can we be honest?

[daletournier]

Ive never been in a storm, rarely I see 30k or more, in fact if its above 25k I dont like it regardless of its direction, im hiding now.
The worst ive been in is high 30s to low 40s of Sumatra last year, it lasted approx 7 hours.
Im without a doubt a fair weather sailor, no thrill in heavy weather for me.
Saw 38k on wind guage two days ago but that was from gusts, once again not sustained.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Someone posted a video recently of sailing in a 40 knot wind. I thought, maybe I really need to get a good anemometer, because if that's true I've sailed in lots of 40 knot days... and I know I haven't.

Don,

Have you ever considered the possibilty that sailing in 40 knot winds looks significantly different on 29ft Columbia than it looks like on a 53ft Oyster or on a 100ft whatever or a 900ft cruiseship?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by TJ D

I don't think that anybody would dispute that these Med winds are real, of course not.

There are well known, strong local winds all over the world, and the Med has plenty. If you go out looking for hurricane force winds to go sailing in, you can surely find them. The question is whether or not in the course of normal (prudent) cruising, how often is getting hit by heavy weather happening to people? In the 50k I've done, I've had a true force 10 just a single time.

I know that occasionally the Med winds will pop up without being forecast.

A question, Ken- Did you know that you were going to see very strong winds, and it blew harder than you anticipated, or was this a total surprise?

On the day we recorded this video, the forecast was for 38 knots sustained on a broad reach. We sailed close to the shore, maybe a mile out in order to be somewhat sheltered from the waves and wind as seen in the beginning of the video before cutting across the strait. We used the land as much as possible as a breakwater before heading across the exposed strait. So yes we knew about the 38 knot forecast, but we received more than expected.

If the forecast had been for heading directly into 38 knots, we never would have left the anchorage. There's an enormous difference between 38 knots off the stern, off the beam and trying to head directly into it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=roLIEIjsd18

[kalbahnov]

My very first time out as a teenager, on a 150 ft schooner, beating around Catalina for 5 hours trying to get around the northern point. I'm sorry - I don't know the wave heights or the wind speed, as I knew nothing at the time but terror and awe. But I do recall that we were under water nearly as much as we were above it. Crew were being washed all over the deck. One almost drowned, on deck, pinned against a scupper if memory serves.

This was 1986 or so. I can only guess the captain didn't plan for quite this much excitement. I hope he wasn't.

Now middle aged, something in me wants more of that. I can't explain.

[seahag]

Hi Tj,
We share the Alaska winds, and as mentioned the gulf of Alaska can put on quite a show. For the most part, we deal with the occasional craziness involving stuff like the two earthquakes I woke up to when the boat was on the hard, a couple times in the marina with 100 mph winds, and some nice sustained gale force stuff but the real challenges have come on anchor with katabatic winds developing at night and whipping us straight down mountainsides, sometimes with very little or no warning. Several times slammed so hard on the beam it seemed like the rig wouldn't be able to handle the whiplash, and watching solid boats get blown off their anchors until ours did too, and then reacting to it all before grounding into rock on the other side of the cove...wicked for sure. But the worst of those williwaws was only sustained for an hour or so before we made our move to a better anchorage. Two other times rode out sustained 50 plus in williwaws off a glacier one of which we decided to abort after a few hours of fierce hits by the straight line nature of those whips.

But mostly it's like you mentioned, pretty rare to be caught out cruising in a big sustained wind. They are here quite a lot but most of us don't mess with it.

[TJ D]

Seahag, the Katabatic/cape effect stuff all over Alaska is really something indeed. I've spent lots of winter months out in the Aleutians, and some of the wind speeds whipping around those islands are incredible. I've had steady 120 knots in places, when it's just 40-50k offshore. Incredible power up here.

Today, however, is really nice. We're presently fishing SW of Bethel-about 59/164.

TJ

[JPA Cate]

This is an interesting thread. Thanks, guys.

We were in a small, fast-moving cyclone, once, and when the eye came over, had to leave what had been, but no longer was, a protected anchorage, for the second time. The first time, had been to go look for a vessel in distress. The gusts pegged the anemometer at 60, don't really know how strong they were. Probably less than 50 sustained while we were out looking. After we left the second time, we went out and hove to, and waited --only overnight-- and it was already long gone. So, I'm agreeing with TJ D that the strong winds were short term. Even in the 55 sustained in Tasmania, anchored in Pt. Davey, when we dragged and re-anchored, with 2 anchors, that was only for a few hours, and then it gradually ameliorated.

We did have repeated days of gale force or better on one late season passage from HI to SF, but the conditions were unusual, a hurricane off Mexico had sucked the Pacific High into it, so the normally Alaskan gales came through along our route. I had the great epiphany about wind vs. sea state then. Saw the first puff of 55 on the anemometer (not sustained, but what I thought was a warning), when the sea was still flat, and quick-smart got 2 reefs in. That was a good deal, because the seas got up more quick smart, too. The coast guard reported 22 ft. for the sea height. That passage saw 19 days of gale force or better on a 24 day passage. Had we had the good sense to give up some of the northing we had made, we could have avoided most of it, and were advised to to so by someone more experienced than us, but we were pig-headed and ignorant in terms of processing what came out of WWVH, and didn't. Silly us, in retrospect. Skip Allen, for those of you who know or know of him. He reached harbor in Santa Cruz days before we did, in SF.

Another time, we had a few days of gale strength, a short time, from astern, and it sped us on our way to HI. 160 mi/day in a boat with a 25 ft. waterline, under storm jib alone.

Lotsa years on the water, now.

Ann

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by TJ D

Seahag, the Katabatic/cape effect stuff all over Alaska is really something indeed. I've spent lots of winter months out in the Aleutians, and some of the wind speeds whipping around those islands are incredible. I've had steady 120 knots in places, when it's just 40-50k offshore. Incredible power up here.

Today, however, is really nice. We're presently fishing SW of Bethel-about 59/164.

TJ

Many locales have unique high wind events. Here in Central America we get gap winds. Some, like in the Med are well known and forecast, like the Tehuantepecer gap wind of Mexico. In Panama we get local gap winds which are not well known, unforecast, and extremely localized (only affecting a very small area). One affects only a specific bay on the Pacific coast, blowing 30-40 knots straight out of the bay...while the adjacent bay is perfectly calm. Have been caught in this one twice while kayaking. That much wind is a signficant challenge in a kayak.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehuantepecer

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by TJ D

Others make it sound like in their travels, encountering full-blown storms is commonplace to the point of being routine.

I haven't really noticed that. At least on this forum, the times I have read accounts of heavy weather, it has always seemed to me to be presented as something unusual, and usually something of pretty brief duration.

Of course, I don't doubt that there are blowhards out there who -- in the retelling -- will turn every 30 knot gust into a gale that lasted a week.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Panope

This gale was forecast right on the money. I ventured out for a day-sail to test a new (to me) storm jib.

NOAA reported wind 38 kts. Gust 45. I was sailing a mile or two upwind of the station. Does not get any more honest than that.

Inland water - waves not large.

Because this boat is somewhat tender, I consider my storm sails to be working sails.

Was a fun day. I would like to do more of this.

A night on the open ocean will probably cure me of this itch.

Steve

Sailing in heavy weather with companionway hatch cover and doors wide open is a disaster waiting to happen, particularly if you're sailing a "tender" boat. An otherwise inconsequential knock down or wave over the quarter or sweeping aft over the bow could easily down flood your accommodation That would definitely cure you of your "itch".

[Snowpetrel]

I am with TJD as well, true storm conditions with fully developed seas are fortunately rare at sea, at least if you don't go out looking for nasty weather. It often seems to me that many yachties overestimate average windspeeds and wave heights due to faulty instruments and poor averaging. Ie not using a true 10 minute average but grabbing 'peak' windspeeds and trying to assess wave heights against apparent height rather than using the horizon as a reference.

The worst weather I have been out in was as a 16 uear old kid in my folks 45 foot gaff ketch, before accurate medium range forecasts were availible.

We got caught in Cook strait near Cape Palliser in a Storm warning. None of the cook strait ferries ran, the airport was closed and a phone box in wellington was blown away. A state of emergency was declared down the Wairapa coast due to high winds and flooding.

It was terrifying, we had the wind speed indicator (it may not have been accurate) pegged out at 60 knots, the sea was covered in white spume and while not fully developed due to the limited 55 mile fetch it was very steep and still maybe at least 7 meters. We were labouring heavily under just the staysail and engine forereaching towards Cape Campbell, hoping to ride the Southerly change into Wellington.

A tanker passed us and asked if we needed assistance, one look at the seas washing right over the ship was enough to scare us off that option.

Anyway we were ok, wet, scared but Ok. The wind backed off after 12 hours, we ran back up the coast after wrapping the mainsheet round the prop (It was washed down a cockpit drain into the prop) trying to motorsail south. The next morning was flat calm after a most unpleasant night and we limped into Castle Point under sail and dived on the prop to clear it.

Anyway, since then I have only once seen the wind approach those conditions offshore, fortunately from the shelter of a 230 meter container ships bridge. It was quite funny, I remember the discussion on the bridge about if we should put it down as a force 10 or a force 11 in the offical weather observations (we were an observing ship, so did 6 hr coded obs that were sent back via satellite to the UK weather computers). We ended up going with force 11, but it was the first time any of us had recorded one outside a TRS. We had no anemometer so it was all done with the beaufort scale. And was pretty accurate. But the seastate reminded me eactly of that night in Cook strait. In this case it only lasted for about 3 hours and never really built up much of a sea.

Anyway I guess the point of all this was that in 6 trips to antarctica, four on yachts, four runs from Nz around cape horn one on a yacht, something like forty tasman crossings, ten on yachts the rest on ships. A fair few runs across biscay, the aussie bight, the Mediterranean, the indian and down or up the atlantic with no regard to the forecasts (ships sail in any weather) we almost never saw sustained conditions over force 10. The worst I saw was in the Aussie Bight, we regularly crossed it the wrong way in winter, and occasionally had force 10 with fully developed seas that would beat us up for a day or two. But even then more often than not it was pretty quiet.

It seems to me that yachts get into trouble because of seastate not wind, and I have seen some pretty nasty seastates in moderate gales. And some pretty easy seastates in stronger winds. Its often one bad event followed by a lomg period of only moderately bad weather that causes problems. I think length of time in the bad stuff is the biggest factor eg a couole if days in 35 knots may well be much worse than 6 hours in 50 knots, The seas build over time, but worse is peoples stamina is worn down. Anyway enough rambling for now.

[Group9]

The only time I have truly been in heavy weather was crossing the Gulf of Mexico from New Orleans to Grand Cayman (on a schedule, of course). We were heading into very steep waves, 12 feet or so, for two days. The wind was probably only blowing 25-30 knots, but it was pretty darn miserable. Waves were coming over the bow and washing halfway down the deck.

The only saving grace was we were on a 90 foot workboat. I would not have wanted to be in it in a smaller boat.

Another bad time, not really bad weather, but just wind out of the wrong direction, was a crossing of the gulf stream at night in 20 knots of north wind (for the usual bad reason, a schedule). Waves were probably only 8-9 feet but they were really steep and the bow was frequently going under water. I kept thinking about what would happen if the boat started sinking and realized we would probably die.

I've been in higher wind speed squalls, but they only lasted five or ten minutes (although it sure felt longer at the time) but I really don't count that as being in heavy weather.

Those two adventures (both when I was young) have made me the most cautious boater, weather wise, the world has ever seen. I'll wait as long as it takes for the weather I want these days.

[boatman61]

I've done a few miles in various parts of the world and its rare that I've seen sustained winds over 40kts in my 30yrs of voyaging.. can count them on 2 hands.. Usually its around F7 gusting to F8..
Exceptions were the Biscay in December on a 22ftr when I crossed most of the Biscay backwards as fronts rolled through.. winds up to 60kts+ and sea's upto 11metres.. another time was 100nm W of the Azores which saw me hove to in sustained 50kts+ and rain that had visibility down to 100metres at times for 5days.. there were about 50 of us scattered to the W-SW that year waiting for the weather to ease.
But these occasions are as you say rare.. and can be avoided with planning and good sense by the cruising sailor.

[Simonsays]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Sailing in heavy weather with companionway hatch cover and doors wide open is a disaster waiting to happen, particularly if you're sailing a "tender" boat. An otherwise inconsequential knock down or wave over the quarter or sweeping aft over the bow could easily down flood your accommodation That would definitely cure you of your "itch".

fortunately, armchair sailing someone elses boat on the internet is quite safe /s

[Panope]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Sailing in heavy weather with companionway hatch cover and doors wide open is a disaster waiting to happen, particularly if you're sailing a "tender" boat. An otherwise inconsequential knock down or wave over the quarter or sweeping aft over the bow could easily down flood your accommodation That would definitely cure you of your "itch".

I completely agree.

However, on that day I do not believe the sea state was anywhere near large enough for this to be a risk for that boat.

That said, as soon as I turned the camera off I retreated to the wheel house, thus eliminating the very real possibility of my falling overboard.

Tethers are on the to do list.

Steve