Gladis Orcas - do they try to bust the boats for fish?

[Siberian Sea]

As a lifelong commercial salmon fisherman in Alaska I have to deal with Orcas on a regular basis. These largest member of the porpoise family are extremely smart and learn fast but it’s very highly unlikely they are attempting to overturn the vessel in order to eat what catch might be stored in its fish hold. I observe them each summer coming right to my vessels stern to rip salmon right out of my gear and it totally sucks and given the marine protection laws there is absolutely nothing I can do. I believe that we are witnessing with the Orcas attacking vessels is a territory response. Being the planets apex hunters they are very attuned to the exact location of venerability and on your vessel this would be your rudder. Documentation has shown that is many of these so called attacks it was the rudder they went for much the same way they do when they hunt and feed upon finback whales in Alaska (they first attack the whales tail). It’s the same when I see them get Stellar Sea Lions. They grab the Sea Lions rear flippers and this injury leaves them unable them effectively move. No, they are not trying to eat you they are trying to remove what they now view as a territorial threat for whatever reason I do not understand.

[Manateeman]

This is hands down, one of the best posts on the subject. Commercial fishermen live out on the water with these mammals. People ought to place a high level of respect for the opinions they have because they are based on a huge number of observations. I’ve seen to many cases wherein scientists have discounted the value of these observations.
All my manatee friends give a high five to this gentlemen.
Go to credits, this film is a wrap.
Happy trails to you
Captain Mark...proud to have worked in commercial fishing from the Port of New Bedford and Reedville and his manatee friends who would stand this gentleman a drink anytime.

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

And yes, the juvenile males do run in packs and get into mischief, and are PIA’s to other dolphins

That would seem to be a common trait in MANY species, especially our own!

[JCFlander]

I stopped reading the thread after mr manatee wrote his autohoritative piece again, this seemed to go right to flame fest. Now I peeked of curiosity, and here was something new.

What I should have included to OP was this part from linked BBC article:

the word “play” sits uncomfortably with what he felt that evening.“I just find it weird. The force that we experienced, it must have hurt them,”

I just don't quite buy the thing that they are just playing. Just take a bite of your boat's rudder, and think a bit how long it is amusing to play with. I don't think antifouling paint would be much of a treat either. The reports don't say if there has been any metal boats that has been pushed around. If their rudders are bitten too, that seems a bit desperate.

So, as a kind of explanations, so far we have:
1. "They just play"... I find hard to believe that.

2. "They're revenging". Perhaps, but there is not much of proof. Except the scars, but that cannot be extrapolated to behaviour as is.

3. "They're excercising, to snatch a flipper of mammal". But why the head-banging against hull then?

4. "They are after fish". Again, not much of a proof.


And then the point that 'Siberian sea' made above. That's something new for a while, and actually kind of discussion what I was looking for when posting this.

5. "They started to defend their territory".

Perhaps, but then they really don't know that most boats of the fishing fleet are too big for them. Do they think it will suffice to bump around just a few boats, so the rest will keep away? Most probably, they can tell the difference between fishing boat and a sailboat. Same-o-same-o ? Back to Silly Orcas again?

And, I keep using the name Orca, because "killer whale" is a bit... anglo... you know. (we call them "sword whales")

So, my point was to get some sense to this. I just don't think that "they play" catches the full picture of this. Yes, perhaps an excercise in futility, but I tried. Cheers.

[Manateeman]

Mr. Flander. I’ll respond to your post which was obviously directed to me.
First, the field of marine mammal science covers a lot of individual areas of expertise. Bio Acoustics and Admiralty Law as it pertains to marine mammals are the two sectors in which I feel comfortable. Please let me explain why I will continue to try to bring the consensus of what is published in marine mammal journals to this forum. Here is just one example .

The protection of manatees and their habitat is an important health issue to women. I hope the female members of the forum see this statement.
Manatees have a unique immunity system which is why they can survive numerous, deep propeller cuts. All dead manatees are autopsied. In a journal on cells, a scientist noted that the manatee appeared to be immune to papilloma virus. A lot of scientists became very interested in manatees. Papilloma virus is the killer in cervical cancer. I secured funding in Norway for further research.
The research eventually led to the development of a vaccine.
When the final laws were written in the US to federally protect manatees, entire sections on vessel / manatee interactions and maritime law which I wrote for the USCG subcommittee in the House, were incorporated word for word.
My work for Save The Manatee and the US Fish and Wildlife Service and my efforts to fund papilloma research were pro bono.
I urge the women on this forum to look closely at papilloma vaccines for themselves and their children.
Happy trails to you
Captain Mark and his masked manatees.

[JPA Cate]

Perhaps reporting that my marine biologist friend said that this is play activity was too non-specific. I apologize. I was brusque. It is that we had just finished a thread about these reported "attacks", and during that time, my friend queried one of her friends who is there in Spain and was involved in studying what was happening. The process of following it up took place over some weeks of phone calls and e-mails back and forth. Of course, it took time, and the play activity explanation makes a great deal of sense to me with these juveniles.

When you consider predator carnivores, you remember, yes, the juveniles' play patterns presage hunting activity. So now put Siberian Sea's observation of orca behavior into that context, and to me, it all has congruence.

As to manatees not getting human papilloma virus, well, the HPV stands for "human", so I would not have thought that manatees would be susceptible, in any event. However, I would say that humans, regardless of gender, would be wise to accept vaccination against it. While women are the only ones to get cervical cancer, the symptoms of HPV than men can get are pretty darned yucky: the disease has some nasty symptoms.

Finally, one would certainly hope that cruisers would inform themselves about all the marine mammals and animals in the seas, rivers, and estuaries and treat them with respect, when encountered.

Ann

[Manateeman]

Please let me bring attention to the wording of my statement on papilloma.
What I wrote was “appears to be immune”. Papilloma is a complex virus.
It is sad, but it appears that captive manatees might have been infected from contact with humans.
Papilloma is a very tricky virus. It wears a lot of different coats but underneath it’s the same bad killer. HPV....NOT surprised manatees are resistant to Human Papilloma Virus because the letter H is present?...means it’s a Human only virus so why would Manatees get it? ...No. Not exactly.
Well when papilloma was seen in captive manatees, the world of cell and virus and marine mammal science became very alarmed. They are an endangered species.
How did contact with humans or the stress of captivity unleash this killer virus.
Had it been hidden but suppressed for generations in manatees.
Were we dumping something into the environment which hurt the immune system of manatees. Had the virus changed in humans because we kiss more than manatees? Serious. Were the two closest species to manatees...elephants and hyrax...going to have or become endangered from the virus. Was it passed or stress induced or the result in an environmental change.
I think stress is interesting. Orcas have killed humans in captivity but not documented in the wild. Manatees develop papilloma sores in captivity, not in the wild. Maybe wild things belong in the wild. Maybe we should just share ocean.
We have a lot to learn from all marine mammals. We are simply mammals and someday, our very existence on this ocean planet, might depend upon a better understanding of how other mammals have survived in the fight against viruses.
Happy trails to you
Captain Mark and his “kissable face”:manatee friends

[Bill_Giles]

I wondered if throwing fire crackers into the water might discourage them?

[markcouz]

Tried that with some hippo's on the Limpopo River in 1981 (while in the military), they got really pi$$ed of and chased one of my mates for about 500m down the soft sandy riverbed.

He managed to get away but nearly died of exhaustion - if you try it i hope for your sake they are not as grumpy as hippo's!

[Tillikum]

“They’re young males, they’re going to be rambunctious,” says Lori. “There could be an element of play, there could be an element of aggression - of trying to prove themselves.”
But to say that they are just cruel and calculating or that they are just rambunctious and playful, she adds, does them a disservice.
“The real truth is not either one of those things. They’re capable of cruelty, they’re capable of kindness, they’re capable of all kinds of things just like humans.
“We can’t characterize them in one dimension. That’s an important lesson to learn.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/buq...spain-portugal



Maybe install a through-hull speaker and see what kind of music they like? They can't listen and chew your rudder off at the same time.

[boatman61]

Never had a problem with Orca..
First encounter was my 1st Transat when a pod appeared late afternoon and circled the boat eyeballing me.. stayed around all night then headed off around 7am.
Returned late afternoon and did the same.. this went on for five nights before they headed off the last morning and I never saw them again.
Guess I was on their preys migratory route for a while.
Seen the ones off Finisterre/Porto and they were just curious and a youngster swam under the boat then they moved on..
Awesome creatures

[volksbar]

How to deter orcas, if needed?


If you have a metal tube and a hammer, lower the metal tube into the water and bang on the tube with the hammer.

The sound very likely will drive them away.


This is just a theory and based on the observation that the Japanese fishermen drive dolphins into the famous slaughter cove, by exactly using this trick to deter, panic and drive the dolphins: metal tubes and hammers.


Orcas are the largest of the dolphin family, and similar to dolphins extremely sound sensitive.

Based on their echo-localization abilities it was calculated by Russian physiologists who work with dolphins, that dolphins can hear 1000 times faster than humans when localizing targets and even are able to distinguish tiniest details within the complex echoes

[robertmfranklin]

Question to Manateeman.

You refer to "Ken and Barbie boat blog".

Might you be referring to the blog that is "Gone"?

Just curious.

[john manning]

When I was much younger I belonged to a surf life saving club. We were taught a process for rescue after a shark attack. At the end of that we were told the process for rescue after a killer whale attack was the same as for a shark attack "if there was anything left to rescue". I can never think of orca as harmless or safe. They are wild and in the water can do whatever they please.

I have had them around my yacht on several occasions in Wellington Harbour and the Cook Strait. On one of those occasions they were about 100m away from my marina, chasing fish in a river mouth. When I sailed over to look at them I began following them in a circle. In less than a couple of minutes they saw what I was doing and began using my yacht as part of their circle to round up fish. I kept circling until they had finished. They are clearly capable of thinking and simple logic.

[Old fella]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Disclaimer: I am not a marine biologist. This is just speculation.

Orcas hunt and kill whales. Maybe they think boats are whales until they have rammed them a couple of times. My understanding is that they go after young calves by attacking the mother first. But if they think there is a sick or dead whale on the surface than it is fair game.

Doubt that, their brain is a lot bigger than ours, ( well, maybe not mine ) I think they know exactly what they’re doing. Whether it’s playing, or just scratching an itch, anyway, I’ll take that comment about my brain back before I’m challenged, l have no hard evidence.