Father and his kids missing at sea

[RTB]

After this long, there isn't much chance of anything good ahead. Sorry for the kids....sad. No reason to go outside. Could have done the ditch.

Ralph

[Miz Pea]

Shut. Up. The kids will be found alive.

[TurninTurtle]

Originally Posted by powsmias

I have a question for this thread. is it uncommon for a large fleet of private vessals to join in or requested that private boats not join in the search?
thanx in advance

Depends on a lot of things...

In general more eyes = more chance to find something.

But they don't want people going out in dangerous conditions and creating more boats in need of Search And Rescue.

Coast Guard trains for adverse weather operations and they are equipped for it.

[Custom30]

Originally Posted by reed1v

The CG claims there were 6 foot seas. Almost any sailboat can handle that. Everything is strange about the story.

What this family encountered can't properly be called "seas".

The shallow nature of that area keeps all wave energy at the surface. The 6 foot "seas" under normal circumstances would be a square, steep, chop 6 feet tall and 3-4 seconds in period. a 29' boat would be slammed upward at once, then dropped like a rock, every 4 seconds. Tabbed bulkheads are no match. If the keel bolts have defects, forget it. I once spent 16 hours in exactly those conditions a little north of there. I was in a heavy boat (18,000# 30') which has circumnavigated and sails to windward like a dream under nearly all conditions. In 16 hours I made about 5 miles in the face of the square chop. Our inboard diesel was useless, as no momentum could be achieved.

Hugging the coast under those conditions is doable, but clearing the shoals at Charlotte Harbor puts you a minimum of 2.5 miles off, and that's far enough to be not doable. This boat was light (6600 lbs) with a fin keel that has no hydrodynamic bite in that chop. The outboard kicker would be most useful as an anchor. They got easterlies sustained in the upper 20's with big gusts, so the farther off they blew (running would be their only option), the worse it got. If the fin keel boat gets beam-on to that square chop, the result is violent and repeated every 4 seconds.

So terrible for the family and friends.


'

[H34]

H34 rewrote the book for a 2013 SAR effort. H34 wants to know the current advancements to utilization the drone to aid in the mariners rescue. "Search and Recovery Is Our Perfection" - what group like SEATOW could have the drones on site to aid the mariner?

Let's use drones to help the mariner's SAR and got some ideas on funding - since the 2013 call to duty.

[RTB]

Originally Posted by Custom30

What this family encountered can't properly be called "seas".

The shallow nature of that area keeps all wave energy at the surface. The 6 foot "seas" under normal circumstances would be a square, steep, chop 6 feet tall and 3-4 seconds in period. a 29' boat would be slammed upward at once, then dropped like a rock, every 4 seconds. Tabbed bulkheads are no match. If the keel bolts have defects, forget it. I once spent 16 hours in exactly those conditions a little north of there. I was in a heavy boat (18,000# 30') which has circumnavigated and sails to windward like a dream under nearly all conditions. In 16 hours I made about 5 miles in the face of the square chop. Our inboard diesel was useless, as no momentum could be achieved.

Hugging the coast under those conditions is doable, but clearing the shoals at Charlotte Harbor puts you a minimum of 2.5 miles off, and that's far enough to be not doable. This boat was light (6600 lbs) with a fin keel that has no hydrodynamic bite in that chop. The outboard kicker would be most useful as an anchor. They got easterlies sustained in the upper 20's with big gusts, so the farther off they blew (running would be their only option), the worse it got. If the fin keel boat gets beam-on to that square chop, the result is violent and repeated every 4 seconds.

So terrible for the family and friends.


'

You are probably spot on. Man, I hate the short wave period in the Gulf. We've turned back a couple of times ourselves, trying to make our way along that coast.

Ralph

[TurninTurtle]

Originally Posted by H34

H34 rewrote the book for a 2013 SAR effort. H34 wants to know the current advancements to utilization the drone to aid in the mariners rescue. "Search and Recovery Is Our Perfection" - what group like SEATOW could have the drones on site to aid the mariner?

Let's use drones to help the mariner's SAR and got some ideas on funding - since the 2013 call to duty.

Drones can be useful tools, but they are not magic bullets.

The smaller and slower the aircraft the more it is affected by wind gusts. Drones useful for SAR would be relatively slow and definitely smaller than commonly used manned aircraft. If its dangerous for the manned aircraft its most likely to be just a waste of the drone to try and fly it.

As soon as conditions start clearing up... the drones could definitely speed the search and they could even be designed to land and act as floating beacons to guide in a cutter or rescue heli.

[weavis]

It is alway best to get the full story before attributing blame. There are a lot of suppositions here, some which may indeed be the truth, but as of yet, we just have a missing family and one body recovered.

This area was my sailing/fishing ground from 2002-2011. It can be the most peaceful and suddenly change to a short choppy world of nastiness. One misjudgement and it can ruin your day.

People do not get married to get a divorce. People do not do things to deliberately harm their family. In life sometimes we take a chance and if lucky, we get away with it. If not.............

All the jumping up and down and shouting is not going to fix this, not for this family. What we can do is make mental notes of what WE can do to help others to enjoy a safe time on the sea. We do not need to blame anyone. Except for circumstances and knowledge, it could have been us out there...let us spread that knowledge and give freely.

My heart is so very sore for the loss.

[Hearts Content]

Very sad. Prayers out to them.

This sounds like a bigger problem than six foot waves.

just did a trip to the keys and tortugas with my daughters (college age). Dropped some serious coin on safety gear. Opted for the personal epirbs that can attach to the life jacket. That way if you go in unexpectedly, you're covered.

[Mikado]

So the Father calls his brother at 3:30 pm on Sunday and reports that they are battling 9ft seas and fighting for survival and the brother doesn't notify the coast guard until Tuesday afternoon? I guess he is going to have to live with not giving the coast guard a Pan Pan notice on behalf of his brother and kids. 48 hours is an eternity when you are in trouble.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Few if any sailboats float. Most sink very quickly due to heavy ballast.

This is false. Monohull sailboats with keels and "heavy ballast" pop back up if rolled by a wave. Rolling them practically never sinks them unless a hole is ripped out when the rig comes off. Even downflooding does not usually sink them. When they sink, which is pretty rare, it's from a hole of some kind in the bottom. Most abandoned boats are found floating afterwards.

[Kreef]

HOW sad indeed so easily from the bliss of the suns rays upon their sweet faces and the breeze in their hair to the starkness and terror of death .Such is the awful reality of our lives .In one way or another.
My heartfelt condolences to all friends and family of the deceased.May you find strength in the knowledge that they had a happy life together .That they found joy in it .They did experience joy you see .It is not everyone that is born that does.Yachting lets me say that even though I did not know them.Yachting always seems to bring joy .
Bless all of you sweethearts !!!

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Mikado

So the Father calls his brother at 3:30 pm on Sunday and reports that they are battling 9ft seas and fighting for survival and the brother doesn't notify the coast guard until Tuesday afternoon? I guess he is going to have to live with not giving the coast guard a Pan Pan notice on behalf of his brother and kids. 48 hours is an eternity when you are in trouble.

You don't know what they talked about and maybe decided about, just the short note given by CG. But if you think it's so important to find someone to blame go a head

[Lantau]

Very sad. It reminds me of when I was a little kid. A boy in my class died, along with all his family (but father), in a boating accident. It made me want a very safe boat. I shiver when I see many boats being used for cruising. Stuff does happen, and when it happens on the water it can be deadly very quickly. It's worth reminding ourselves of this constantly, but I wish we didn't have tragedies like this to do it.

[SKG56]

When a tragedy like this happens, I think it's important, to me anyway,when as much of the facts can be determined, what can be done to educate people about the root causes, what ever they may be, weather, preparedness and so on, so maybe it will save lives in the future, analysis and investigations are performed after terrible events such as this, plane crashes, train wrecks, ships sinking etc., so they may be prevented from happening again. We can't prevent all of them, but maybe some folks can learn from this terrible thing.This may seem harsh to some, but I believe it's very important