LiFePo4 for DUMMIES

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

I can agree with Maine Sail's post # 32 as to the knowledge you need to make a boat with LifePO4 house bank work safely. He has posted tons of great information and pictures which has helped me understand these batteries much better than I did just a few years ago.

My only issue is that as a LifePO4 student, the training manual is written like my little sisters diary. It’s deep and all over the place at 3,547 posts to date.

A new CF member coming into the LifePO4 thread today is treated to data overload trying to get through that thread.

If it was in categories it would be just like a book with chapters starting with and index and vocabulary.

Then when one wants to build a LifePO4 house bank, they can just do their reading and follow the chapter they need when they need it.

Couldn't agree more.

In google searches I find info on the other lithium batteries I'm planning on using, and these searches lead me to other forums. If I find good sources like Maine Sail is here for LiFePO, then I join that forum to be able to query the knowledgeable.

I have to admit, my searches have never found another forum that has the post count on their lithium batteries like we have here. It is my assumption that the OP for this thread was hoping for the Reader's Digest version of the main, monster length thread.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

It is my assumption that the OP for this thread was hoping for the Reader's Digest version of the main, monster length thread.

The OP (Original Post) was from sytaniwha back in 2011 and he just wanted to point us to some great info and also talk about his LiFePo4 bank.

These threads can have a life of their own and I am sure sytaniwha had no idea what he started. He just happened to win the LiFePo4 lottery and take this information to a new level as we can see after 3,547 posts.

We could start anew and build a better LiFePo4 book.

[Cotemar]

OK, OK let's cool all cool down. This bickering is going no place.
Caracal you have to settle down a bit and take a breath.
Let’s all learn together and build a better mouse trap here.

[darylat8750]

I have no idea how but maybe a moderator could organize some of the basic info into a searchable library.

I also remind myself from time to time that MaineSail makes his living with the knowledge, experience and skill that he is generous with here and on other internet resources. He has stated several times that he is not comfortable enough with this tech. To stake his commercial reputation on it yet. Hopefully at some point he will be. If I'm lucky that will be before I have to replace my golf cart batteries. In the meantime I'm slowly doing upgrades that will be compatable with with the LiFe batteries when that time comes.

[deckofficer]

Caracal,

When David gets his next wi-fi connection he is going to wonder what happened to his thread.

Just copy and paste into a search engine the equipment that Maine Sail posted and read what the manufacturer has to say about their product. Do searches for other manufacturers to see what they have to offer and decide what best suits your application.

I participate in forums to learn from others and to offer up any expertise I might have. Maine Sail and T1 Terry have been a wealth of information, and their contributions along with their counterparts on other forums, is what makes research easy. Please don't discourage this by any perceived attitude you feel that Maine Sail expressed. If anyone needs to be walked step by step through this upgrade they should just contract it done. I'm sure many cruisers will do this if they feel out of their comfort zone.

[deckofficer]

This is a good read from my bible magazine "HomePower". I have read this magazine since their first issue in the days I was designing stand alone, off grid power for remote home sites.

Lithium-Ion Batteries for Off-Grid Systems | Home Power Magazine

[JK n Smitty]

Ok Caracal time to drop it.

You keep hearing people tell you to do your own home work and because you don't like that answer you are attacking one of the best technical contributes to any boat related forum. Enough already!

I have asked MaineSail for help in the past and he has always been extremely helpful. But when I want help with my electrical system I did my research, made a proposed wiring diagram with components and asked for his input. Which he gave freely despite having a business close enough to me that I could have hired him to work on my system.

I have also talked to him in person. He is great to talk to. A nice guy who is willing to help where he can. I even called him one spring when I couldn't get my boat to start and he called me back and helped me with my problem.

He doesn't make any money from doing this. He volunteers his time to help people who are willing to put in some effort on their own.

I am just glad he puts up with crap like this and does what he does.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by JK n Smitty

Ok Caracal time to drop it.

You keep hearing people tell you to do your own home work and because you don't like that answer you are attacking one of the best technical contributes to any boat related forum. Enough already!

I have asked MaineSail for help in the past and he has always been extremely helpful. But when I want help with my electrical system I did my research, made a proposed wiring diagram with components and asked for his input. Which he gave freely despite having a business close enough to me that I could have hired him to work on my system.

I have also talked to him in person. He is great to talk to. A nice guy who is willing to help where he can. I even called him one spring when I couldn't get my boat to start and he called me back and helped me with my problem.

He doesn't make any money from doing this. He volunteers his time to help people who are willing to put in some effort on their own.

I am just glad he puts up with crap like this and does what he does.

+1 . Well put.

A thread clean up has just occurred removing the abusive/rude posts and the responses to them. This should allow the discussion to continue. Lots of useful information here.

[deckofficer]

Caracal,

As a cruiser you shouldn't fear knowledge of your systems. Knowledge above just being an "appliance operator" could save your bacon while cruising.

Maybe you can put yourself in Maine Sail's shoes. You are now the knowledgeable one on this subject and folks ask for detailed schematics on the systems you have designed. You supply them for their DIY installation and they make an error installing and burn their boat up. Would you choose for this kind of exposure?

Maine Sail has given us all the details, some so small as to include that if powering glow plugs with a lithium bank, to reduce the time frame of glow plug usage due to the lack of voltage sag that the glow plug manufacturer takes into account with lead acid batteries. I know that is a small detail, but his experience will save others from burning out glow plugs on their diesels.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Maine Sail has given us all the details, some so small as to include that if powering glow plugs with a lithium bank, to reduce the time frame of glow plug usage due to the lack of voltage sag that the glow plug manufacturer takes into account with lead acid batteries. I know that is a small detail, but his experience will save others from burning out glow plugs on their diesels.

I do remember that glow plug post. Glad to see that LiFePo4 users are posting all the con’s as well as the pros.

Only a LiFePo4 user would have been able to point that problem out to us newbies before we fried our glow plugs.

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

I do remember that glow plug post. Glad to see that LiFePo4 users are posting all the con’s as well as the pros.

Only a LiFePo4 user would have been able to point that problem out to us newbies before we fried our glow plugs.

This is why I don't want folks to discourage the knowledgeable from posting their experiences.

Keep posting Maine Sail, please.

[Ocean Diamond 2]

Hi Guys and Gals,

When I saw this thread I thought great now something maybe I could understand. But then people become people and something for me gets lost. Oh well.
Now if the people who do understand these batteries can help people like me it would be great. I like the OP waded throuigh the other threads and became confused. So what about these LIPO4 batteries that are supposedly pre-made for boating and other uses, stating that you can just hook them up to an existing system.

12V 200AH Lithium ION Battery Solar Deep Cycle Caravan Marine 3yr Warranty | eBay

Are these in fact able to do it reliably as I feel they dont seem to have taken into account all the stuff I read on the other LiPo4 threads?

If you think they are good then it might help the OP

Derek

[Matt Johnson]

Mainsail-

This is the first I have seen the Sterling Battery Chemistry Module. After just scratching the surface of it's abilities, I see it has a setting already programmed for LiFePO4. Wouldn't I then be able to put this between my older Promariner charger....heck, even my BlueSky 3024i Solar and just set the Sterling to LiFePO4 and get down to the voltage needed?

Seems like a plug and play way to use our older equipment already onboard. You're using to charge a LA start battery, but it sound like a solution to sub-60a charge sources.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Mainsail-

This is the first I have seen the Sterling Battery Chemistry Module. After just scratching the surface of it's abilities, I see it has a setting already programmed for LiFePO4. Wouldn't I then be able to put this between my older Promariner charger....heck, even my BlueSky 3024i Solar and just set the Sterling to LiFePO4 and get down to the voltage needed?

Seems like a plug and play way to use our older equipment already onboard. You're using to charge a LA start battery, but it sound like a solution to sub-60a charge sources.

Have a close read of the instruction leaflet. It's seems a little simplistic to me. All it is is a voltage convertor. It doesn't provide any cell monitoring or proper LVC or HVC protection.

I don't know .....

Dave

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

Well all of that sounds lovely even if the last few sound like a bit of overkill for your average cruiser, so how about a block layout diagram and maybe some costings and a list of MUST HAVES and Nice to Haves.

Also most of us are doing an upgrade so i cant agree we are thinking 'backwards' I know what i have and i know what i want and I think that LiFePo4 seem to be the ideal battery system for what i want to do with my boat and my cruising. To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld...with some poetic license I have some known knowns and many known unknowns and unknown unknowns All I want to do it NOT REINVENT THE WHEEL.

I want a battery system that wont sag (voltage) under heavy load

LiFePO4 seems to be the best answer at this point in time.

I understand i need to watch and control Low Voltage Conditions (LVC) and do the same for High Voltage Conditions (HVC)

I understand that i seems a good idea to start off with fully balanced cells though the need for that is not critical it is just sensible practice

I understand that my charging Alternator, Wind and Solar will need 'tweaking' to meet the needs of a LiFePo4 battery bank.

I am happy to occasionally look at my batteries BUT for sure I want this to be a NON critical task and not a heavily time consuming one. To that end i hope to spend all the time i need understanding and building MY LiFePo4 system and then be able to relax enjoy the benefits and enjoy my sailing and cruising and basically 'just ignore' my batteries like i do at the moment - they will work in the background meeting all my electrical needs without my constant intervention.

I think that explains what i am looking for in quite simple and easy to understand non confusing terms. I am sure there are others just like me with similar goals and ambitions with regards to these LiFePo4 batteries.

Sadly i don't have 24/7 WiFi access ATM so i will need to wait till i am next online to read more here.

Thanks to all in advance who can assist and add to my font of knowledge and help me build the system i want and need.

I think the issue is that the practical experience level is low enough at this point that high and low voltage cut offs at the cell level is a very good (and inexpensive) idea. Not because you may blow up your boat but because if your primary voltage controls fail you may destroy a very expensive battery bank. It is not that this is rocket science , but the technology is rather new in this application and mistakes can be expensive, not to mention inconvient. If you have a failure you can't run to the local discount store to replace them.

It is awful early for a set it and forget it system unless you are willing to spend the bucks for one of the ready to go systems.