Illegal to Buy a Visiting Yacht Which Overstayed in the Philippines ?

[Laidback]

How do you know where 'you guys live' ?

The remedies suggested to the OP appear to advise corrupt payments to corrupt officials - which merely perpetuates the disease.

[category4jay]

"undocumented fee"???? Hmmmm.

Pelagic certainly does sound like he knows EXACTLY how to work around the problem though. Wasnt that the question?

[Lancerbye]

Pelagic stated facts as they are. If you feel that you can change the recognized customs of a country, by trying to do things in another country, the way they are done in North America or Europe, good luck with that. The country is very poor and people from all walks of life supplement there meager income anyway they can. The moral high ground seems really good until you spend some time there and get to understand how things are done. There are not very many sailboats, cruisers etc. in a country made up of 7000 islands. We are not important enough to be much of a consideration. There is not a great amount of money available to set up a government agency to handle yacht registration, so if you go looking for one someone will take your money and try.

[bangkaboat]

I fail to understand why this thread needs to digress into a criticism of fellow members who are trying to give "goner" their honest opinions, based on their own experience. I lived in Davao, co-own several properties in The Philippines will be prepping a boat to return to Davao, sat in paradise, on Dayang Beach, on Talikud Island, at the tender ages of 28-30 & constantly wished I had a sailboat to sail the Gulf of Davao & beyond. I almost bought a boat there at the time but my experience with the coast guard when building a couple of fish boats convinced me not to. Still, I met a Filipino who brought a T-bird there & knew the "right people". Last I heard, he'd had it refit - beautifully - & had it for sale. I recognize other members who have been there from their posts in previous threads. In the end, "goner" will make the call & I'm sure we all wish him the best of luck with that decision.
Mike

[tager]

Synopsis: goner asks a question, a lot of people try to answer it, pelagic answers it, a lot of people get jealous that they didn't have the right answer and turn this thread into a bottomless debate about morality, bribes, and culture.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by tager

Synopsis: goner asks a question, a lot of people try to answer it, pelagic answers it, a lot of people get jealous that they didn't have the right answer and turn this thread into a bottomless debate about morality, bribes, and culture.

To be fair, I can see how Pelagics answer works well for the Vendor. Not entirely sure it is so good for the buyer.

FWIW I have always found that if one is doing something "naughty" that sensible not to return to the scene and stick two fingers up Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.........

In my book fleeing a country to dodge an import tax bill fits into the Naughty category - and even in the PI they will have laws that cover that, albeit I appreciate that enforcement / caring may be a different matter. But why would someone pay good money for that risk?.....if I was looking for some tea money discovering that a (returning) boat / an owner had been engaged in something Naughty would really make my day How would Customs find out? leaving aside whether the vessel is listed as already arrived (and never left), one thing I discovered about Expats in SEA is they very often can't keep there mouths shut even without someone wishing to throw a tea money opportunity to officialdom to help smooth the wheels of other commerce.........

......meeting the vessel in Malaysia and then not returning to the PI would be a different matter.

[Blue Stocking]

IMHO, come clean,--or don't come at all. You may lose the boat, your money, and your freedom.

2 examples of "you can run, but you can't hide"

Earlier thread which suggested that pirates had viewed CF to get ransom value for the QUEST

Last night CNN did special about Facebook. A genuine concern is that there is SO MUCH info out there, that its pretty difficult for anyone to avoid scrutiny.

Just sayin.

[Gone2long]

... Even if the tax amounts to 65% (15% import + 50% "luxury") when places like Singapore do not require any import taxes on used boats?

To answer one question on this thread, the "luxury item" that I am considering is a 34 year old, fully equipt, pocket cruiser, going for an asking price of $12,000. What makes her apparently illegal is that the owner kept her in the PI without moving her out every 1.5 years and bringing her back in, paying all relevant costs. As an added point of order, let me note that I have contacted customs and, apparently because they do not centralize or save records that stretch back 7 years, they could not verify the fact that the boat ever entered the country.

To me the issue is more about respecting one's adopted culture than whether the government is right, wrong or simply misguided and anachronistic in what they are attempting to accomplish with such levies.

When one considers that US and European multi-nationals have moved many of their operations into 3rd world nations to avoid relatively mild taxes, like a 15% US capital gains tax, all of this takes on an even more bizarre "moral" note.

Personally, I believe that issues of morality are relevant in such discussions, but, perhaps as Tager suggests, they are better left off such threads and discussed in PMs.

Feel free to PM me on any related ideas in the future.

Thanks again to all,

G2L

[Gone2long]

... And, actually, as per my post above, I have contacted the local PI customs official on this. He did not even ask for the name of the current owner or the boat and simply said, "come see me and bring all the boat's registration papers, and I will help you."

Actually, I believe that this official is acting in good faith and would try to mediate some amenable solution (arrived at with a minimum of due financial courtesy) but, of course, as mentioned earlier, I don't need his help unless I buy the boat.

I am intending to put forth the possibility of a mediated solution to the current owner, who is out of the country at the moment and suggests that I make payment to his local relatives (another red flag, no doubt).

All told, I have the nagging feelilng that the owner may not consider any mediated solution to be an offer which he cannot possibly resist.

Thanks to all for your candid replies,

G2L

[Dragonhand]

Gone2Long:

I think you have (Gone2Long). The officer is a normal Philippine officer that does not really know any rules or laws and just as you say wish to help in the hope of a little facilitation fee (we do not call it bribe since that is illegal) filling out the documents he is familiar with. Following obscure rules is for lawyers. So unless you insist on having problems just go with the flow.

It is like having an international drivers license, any officer in MNL and elsewhere will tell you it is not valid in Philly. They do not know better and will be very cooperative in clearing up the case. Except that time I was in a foul mood and told them to go ahead a create an international incidence. Then they backed off still of course not knowing that the license was OK at that time.

[Tom Stormcrowe]

Originally Posted by Laidback

How do you know where 'you guys live' ?

The remedies suggested to the OP appear to advise corrupt payments to corrupt officials - which merely perpetuates the disease.

Might perpetuate it, but it is what it is and as individuals, we can only deal with reality as it is rather than constantly buck the current. I worked in Central Africa in my career, as a mining equipment hauler, and I can assure you that while it's crooked, once you learn to game the system like the locals, it gets things done expeditiously.

[diadema111]

At the risk of expanding the scope of the thread, I would be very concerned about other issues. If the present owner has dodged one set of rules, have other rules been skirted? Is the title clear? Are there outstanding yard bills? Are you going to get to bring in a surveyor? Is the sale contingent on sea trials? Don't let the customs issue distract you from other questions which may be related to why the vessel is not properly registered in the first place. It would not be a good experience to get the boat to Guam without proper papers only to learn that the boat had previously been reported stolen.

I learned the lesson the hard way. The owner of an old work boat used the excuse of an expired registration decal to limit the "sea trial" to a low speed tour of the near by canals. This concealed the bent prop shaft until after I updated the registration and took the boat out in open water. My bad!

[Ex-Calif]

Uh...

You guys know this thread is over a year old, right?

Gone2Long might be "gone"...

I lived in the Philippines for 6 years. I love the people but unfortunately in terms of "officialdom" it is still the worst place in Asia. They definitely have rules, you try to follow them and rarely things work out correctly. OTOH - You bypass the rules, pay some "facilitation" fees and things may or may not work out.

Sad, really as I love the Filipinos a lot. I would be extremely careful buying a yacht in the Philippines.

If buying a yacht for use in SEA moving the boat to a Malaysian duty free port like Langakawi is the way to go IMHO. If the owner can't or won't move the boat out of current country, there must be a good reason...(or a bad one depending on perspective)

[Dragonhand]

yes, you are right, Gone2long is gone but the boat seems still to be there :-)

[Ex-Calif]

That is sad.

I know several boats where the expat owner couldn't, didn't, wouldn't sort out the paperwork before leaving and just left the boat. A couple here have simply sunk on the moorings.

A sad end for some good boats.