How Old is Your Nav Equipment?

[RickG]

We have 2003 Raymarine electronics backed up by a Garmin 78sc and ipad/iphone with Garmin and Navionics apps with current charts. The chartplotter cable needs an occasional squirt of contact cleaner to keep it happy. I've considered upgrading the Raymarine gear, but I would have to replace the radar.

Cheers, RickG

[Pizzazz]

Most people add/replace equipment to add functionality or to repair broken pieces. Broken equipment needs to be replaced as needed but with care it could last up to 100 years as mentioned above. Thus, the major driver is adding functionality. For me, the key changes were:

HD Radar (c. 2008, improved detection, bigger than 3G/4G radar)
AIS (c. 2004, probably the most important development after VHF)
Affordable weather routing apps (mid-2000s)
Compact gyro stabilized compass (mid-2000s, better autopilot, MARPA)
Microprocessor controlled SSB (c. 1997, low noise, fast scan, digital modes)
DGPS (c. 1996, allowed for 5m accuracy even when S/A was on)
LCD radar (c. 1995, radar at helm becomes possible)

As you can see, there is nothing revolutionary new in the last ten years that necessitates an upgrade. Touch screen, better sonars, better integration - it is all glitter with little benefit. I believe the next major thing will be Iridium Next that would finally provide useable internet at sea. At least, I hope so.

My equipment is a fully integrated Raymarine system, c. 2004.

[sasirles]

The problem with old nav gear is its use of old (pre-NMEA 2000) protocols. As long as you don't try to add a new piece of gear to your system, you are OK. After all, it still works. Virtually everything manufactured today requires NMEA 2000. I added AIS to my boat last year and I had to replace a lot of stuff that I hadn't planned on.

[Mithril Bham]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Redhead:

Your coordinates say that you are in that nifty little marina at the end of Semiahmoo spit. Good place to be :-). It means, among other things that you needn't worry about stuff like Garmins - unless doing so gives you joy :-). Once you are ready for Blue Water, I might be a little more in favour of serious navigating gear. But that means a sextant and the reduction tables. A chartplotter is only a toy :-)!

That whole patch of water off Semiahmoo, from there all the way down to Seattle and all the way out to Port Townsend and Pedder Bay - for that matter all the way to Neah Bay - is PILOTING water. That means "use your eyeball, and know the shoreline" Also all the water north to and including the Broughton Islands. The Salish Sea is just a big bathtub. You can't get lost. A little confused now and then, but never lost :-)!

I get by with paper charts that came with the boat. And here is the trick: For shoreside use I have a hunnertandfiftybuck retrofit GPS for my car. I take it with me in TP. Every fifteen minutes or so I read the coordinates off it, and plot them on the paper chart. That's it! That's all I need to know. The read-out is accurate to 30 feet, or so, ANYWHERE that you or I are likely to go. I plot the coordinates on my paper chart every fifteen minutes or so because MyBeloved LOVES being on the helm and gets grumpy if I want to steer :-)! So I get seriously BORED unless I make a fetish of the navigation.

The Canadian Department of Fisheries and Oceans publishes a simply WONDERFUL book of SMALL SCALE (i.e. large features) charts of our waters, including some of yours. It's called "Chart 3313" and if you are gonna go north, you shouldn't be without it. Beats chart-plotters all to heck!

If you are worried about water depth ("soundings") - don't be. I use the centuries old device called a lead line. Your famous and delightful Samuel Langhorne Clemens took his pen-name from that device when he was a river pilot on the Mississip: "Mark Twain". Mine is simple. It's just a piece of net twine and it has a "sinker" like you use for fishing for a lead weight, and it is marked with as many immediately adjoining figure eight knots as the knots are fathoms from the lead. Abracadabra - an INFALLIBLE sounding. Night or day. No juice needed.

Every so often I want to sneak twixt rocks in order to save distance. Bit tricky that, given our reef-filled waters. But the drop-offs are always steep. And the reefs in the summer time are marked by bull-kelp that you can spot at a fair distance. So I ask MB to take station in the pulpit and keep a sharp look-out in our track. You can SEE bottom betimes while the water is still deeper than your draft. I chunk along at a quarter knot or so, because at that speed using full bore in reverse TP will stop dead in half a length. A few minutes of going slow like that, and we are through the Zone of Uncertainty. If you go up a dead end, or for any other reason chicken out, you just back out in the very track you followed coming in :-)

So dismiss what salesmen at WestMarine will tell you and dismiss what you read in the glossy mags. It's mere marketing guff meant to separate you from your hard-earned money.

Later in the summer we'll be down Oak Bay way. Maybe we can meet on the International Border. Your Coasties and ours needn't know anything about it ;-).

TP

Try that method at night or in heavy fog. You can go from 300 ft to 0 in spots in the San Juans in 10 seconds. Lead line a bit difficult in those conditions. Basically you are right if you sail in clear weather.

[Mithril Bham]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

I've got an RDF from the 1970's, & a Sextant that's a few years newer.

What do you use your RDF for? Threw my 1978 model away a few years ago. Still worked.

[Djarraluda]

in industry, we work on an 8 year life for electronics. Software is often shorter span, but the hardware should have a minimum 8 years, with 15 + being typical. We all have our experiences with different brands and how they offer, or not, appropriate support. Perhaps your friend has an issue or two with Garmin, or it is a generational change in the equipment he refers to such as Analogue to Digital.
Roger

[conchaway]

I have found that a current chart, a parallel rule, a divider, a nautical slide rule, and a compass never go out of date.
Best of Luck!

[sailorchic34]

My new garmin 186 chart plotter is 10 years old, My old garmin gps is 26 years old. My depth sounder is 45 years old (it was the first digital one with vacuum tube display). My autopilot is 20 years old.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Redhead,

It is a technology that it having a lot of changes. However, there is "infant mortality" with electronics, occasionally: right out of the box or shortly after installation, your brand new "x" may not work properly. Your warranty may no longer be valid.

!

It's always been my experience as you describe that either electronics break in the first 30 days of use or last years. Most electronics on a boat last for years. Now, technology changes and many of us update, but the equipment is still working when we replace it.

[barnakiel]

I think the sextant and the compass rate oldest, at about 30 y.o.

Charts and pilots are mostly post about 20 y.o.

The log and the echo, bearing compass and triangles are about 15 y.o.

The radio is about 10 y.o.

The windex is about 5 y.o. and likely nearing its end.

Cheers,
b.

[Gadagirl]

This thread comes at a perfect time for me as I'll be starting serious boat shopping in a few months time.

I was wondering when comparing boats how much faith to put into navigation/electronics and their age? So, if it has some extras such as radar, chart plotter etc., 2008 or newer, it might be worth closer to their asking price? As opposed to a boat that has 10+ year old equipment? Even though the older equipment may still have a lot of life left in them?

[CaptsWife]

Originally Posted by Snore

The more important question is how old are the charts in the plotter?

I just moved an older boat with an old Garmin. It still had the original charts. As a delivery captain I rely on my iPad since I load fresh charts before every job and carry paper too. But 99% of recreational boaters rely on their plotter. So--- if you are going to keep the old plotter (I would) consider buying an updated chart chip.

Now if you cannot update the charts, that is a different issue.

Good advice!

[Gadagirl]

On correction:
I shouldn't have used the word "faith", I should've used the word "value".

I understand that all will eventually need to be replaced!

[roverhi]

Sailed to Hawaii with my Garmin 3208 plotter. Was about a decade old when I made the sail and worked just fine. Only negative for me is it uses the old Garmin Proprietary Chart Chips but I picked up all the chart chips I'll ever need on Ebay so will probably sail with it till I die. Have a Garmin 76 as a backup that works fine for Lat/Long so I can DR navigate if something happens to the 3206. Will probably pick up another hand held GPS as a 2nd backup if I make anymore long voyages.

[redhead]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Redhead:

Your coordinates say that you are in that nifty little marina at the end of Semiahmoo spit. Good place to be :-). It means, among other things that you needn't worry about stuff like Garmins - unless doing so gives you joy :-). Once you are ready for Blue Water, I might be a little more in favour of serious navigating gear. But that means a sextant and the reduction tables. A chartplotter is only a toy :-)!

That whole patch of water off Semiahmoo, from there all the way down to Seattle and all the way out to Port Townsend and Pedder Bay - for that matter all the way to Neah Bay - is PILOTING water. That means "use your eyeball, and know the shoreline" Also all the water north to and including the Broughton Islands. The Salish Sea is just a big bathtub. You can't get lost. A little confused now and then, but never lost :-)!

I get by with paper charts that came with the boat. And here is the trick: For shoreside use I have a hunnertandfiftybuck retrofit GPS for my car. I take it with me in TP. Every fifteen minutes or so I read the coordinates off it, and plot them on the paper chart. That's it! That's all I need to know. The read-out is accurate to 30 feet, or so, ANYWHERE that you or I are likely to go. I plot the coordinates on my paper chart every fifteen minutes or so because MyBeloved LOVES being on the helm and gets grumpy if I want to steer :-)! So I get seriously BORED unless I make a fetish of the navigation.

The Canadian Department of Fisheries and Oceans publishes a simply WONDERFUL book of SMALL SCALE (i.e. large features) charts of our waters, including some of yours. It's called "Chart 3313" and if you are gonna go north, you shouldn't be without it. Beats chart-plotters all to heck!

If you are worried about water depth ("soundings") - don't be. I use the centuries old device called a lead line. Your famous and delightful Samuel Langhorne Clemens took his pen-name from that device when he was a river pilot on the Mississip: "Mark Twain". Mine is simple. It's just a piece of net twine and it has a "sinker" like you use for fishing for a lead weight, and it is marked with as many immediately adjoining figure eight knots as the knots are fathoms from the lead. Abracadabra - an INFALLIBLE sounding. Night or day. No juice needed.

Every so often I want to sneak twixt rocks in order to save distance. Bit tricky that, given our reef-filled waters. But the drop-offs are always steep. And the reefs in the summer time are marked by bull-kelp that you can spot at a fair distance. So I ask MB to take station in the pulpit and keep a sharp look-out in our track. You can SEE bottom betimes while the water is still deeper than your draft. I chunk along at a quarter knot or so, because at that speed using full bore in reverse TP will stop dead in half a length. A few minutes of going slow like that, and we are through the Zone of Uncertainty. If you go up a dead end, or for any other reason chicken out, you just back out in the very track you followed coming in :-)

So dismiss what salesmen at WestMarine will tell you and dismiss what you read in the glossy mags. It's mere marketing guff meant to separate you from your hard-earned money.

Later in the summer we'll be down Oak Bay way. Maybe we can meet on the International Border. Your Coasties and ours needn't know anything about it ;-).

TP

We are new to the Pacific - the Atlantic has SO many more harbors and SO fewer rocks jutting under the surface. Until I get more "local knowledge" I want to use every tool in my toolbox; my eyeballs, paper charts, chart plotters, GPS, depth sounder - the whole shebang. I spent too many years in aviation to assume I know anything until I've been around a few years. Just my own peace of mind.

I never even considered upgrading my present "new to me" system. We're bleeding money here and it would have to do even if the advice were otherwise. But since the overwhelming majority have said it'll be fine - again my own peace of mind.

As for depth, we draw 10 feet which is more than any other craft I've ever had, so until I get used to

a bigger boat
in a bigger ocean
with a bigger draught

it'll let me navigate with more confidence and sleep better at night to have the toys. As time goes by and I get more familiar with this gorgeous place I may become more at ease with less electronic help. But I've always pretty much been a safety weenie, so maybe not.

I'll see you at the border soon - sssshhhhhh - don't tell anyone.