Rocna Versus the World

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Perhaps you did not have time to read the link I provided earlier. Pretty much the same input. Mike is right, they are a great improvement.

I did. And Thank You.

[model 10]

[QUOTE=TDC;1526790]I do believe a new gen/scoop is better than the CQR/Plow... I have dragged the Rocna multiple times. First was in weeds. Grass got wrapped around the roll bar and was a pain in the rear to clear the fouling. Second time was in 'great holding' heavy mud. The mud filled up the scoop and then seemed to just drag along like a mushroom.

I'm not sure that's such a great recommendation. I too have had problems with the spade filling up with mud and turning into a "mushroom." I don't remember that so much with a plow.
Boy. if you didn't have a electric windlass pulling up a big Rocna full of mud would be a chore.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by tdoster

Is it worth ditching the Bruce and Plow and replacing them with a Rocna?

Absolutely go with a new generation anchor. Anyone of them will be better than a Bruce or Plow anchor.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Guy

I too have had problems with the spade filling up with mud and turning into a "mushroom." I don't remember that so much with a plow.
Boy. if you didn't have a electric windlass pulling up a big Rocna full of mud would be a chore.

Funny ... I have a manual windlass, with the same 55# Rocna. I have pulled up big chunks of the bottom at times (and a few trees as well). Lots of fun.

No anchor is going to work for all bottoms. That's why I still carry my large Danforth and my moderate sized Bruce. I used to routinely switch between my danforth and my CQR, depending on the bottom. But in our cruising grounds the Rocna is now the only anchor I use 95% of the time.

I can honestly say I have never yet dragged with this anchor once it was set. I'm sure we will some day, but so far we've held in some pretty ugly blows. It sets very well most of the time, but there have been occasions where it took a while, and many tries. We take our time getting a proper set -- always.

[TDC]

I'm also using the 55# Rocna. Set hard and soaked for a week before a wind shift (~20kts max) pulled it out and it did not reset. Danforth and claws bring up a ton of bottom too, so in my mind a windlass is almost mandatory.

So of course there are issues but on a sailboat the weight is important and the Rocna is a good compromise since it is efficient for its weight. Work boat is a 200,000# tug with an UNDERsized 176# bruce. Never had an issue. Would love a huge bruce on the sailboat but it's not realistic. For that matter a 176# Lewmar claw and 55# Rocna are pretty similar in price despite both being cast steel and made in China...

Just being devils advocate. I have the Rocna and it's great 95% of the time. If the OP has a big Delta and a big Bruce backup I'd probably save my money, but if buying a new one go for the new gen.

[paccrest]

I lived aboard a Westsail 42 for over a year in the early 80s. We had a 70 lbs ish CQR. My dad was anal when it came to properly setting the anchor and allowed for more than adequate scope. In most situations it was golden given that we followed the protocol. However, when it comes to anchoring, it's not the "most situations" that you want to be good for. You want an anchor to hold in the rough blows and rolly bays. I now have a 45' Hunter, 30,000 lb crusing displacement and have a 55lb Rocna on board. That anchor is amazing and I you couldn't gift me a CQR now! I carry a Fortress 37 as backup for the big blows or anchorages where I know the Rocna may have a weakness, like grass and mud. IMHO...the Rocna or other new gen anchor can't be beat and I would not own a boat without one on the bow. Spend the money, buy the best. I equate it to a helmet when riding a motorcycle...it's not something you want to go cheap on.
SV Liahona

[Kenomac]

Buy a Spade or Ultra instead of the Rocna, then you won't need to make any modifications to accommodate the roll bar. Keep the other two anchors for spares.

[sneuman]

The CQR, IMHO, represents the pinnacle of anchoring technology for sandy/muddy bottoms. One or another of the new fangled anchors might be a bit better in some situations, but it's mostly just fancy marketing at this point.

"Ditching" a good plow (CQR) or Bruce would be expensive and silly ... again ... IMHO.

What happens is this: you anchor in a blow and whatever anchor you put down that held without dragging suddenly becomes "the best anchor." If it was a Ronca, then you're a convert ... but quite probably a good-ole CQR would have served just as well. Since you didn't do a side-by-side comparison and because each anchoring situation is unique, you never really have good data -- just a hunch.

It becomes more myth and religion than science.

[paccrest]

[QUOTE=sneuman;1526892]The CQR, IMHO, represents the pinnacle of anchoring technology for sandy/muddy bottoms. One or another of the new fangled anchors might be a bit better in some situations, but it's mostly just fancy marketing at this point."

I disagree with the statement that it is "just fancy marketing at this point". Read the test data, sit behind one yourself...new gen anchors ARE BETTER! PERIOD! I do, however, agree that if you hold in a good blow on whatever anchor, you are sold. This is more than that though. Do the research and you will find there is a reason people swear by new gen anchors and it is not because they are drinking the coolaid.

[sailorboy1]

I have a Manson Supreme and am happy with it.

[sneuman]

[QUOTE=paccrest;1526903]

Originally Posted by sneuman

The CQR, IMHO, represents the pinnacle of anchoring technology for sandy/muddy bottoms. One or another of the new fangled anchors might be a bit better in some situations, but it's mostly just fancy marketing at this point."

I disagree with the statement that it is "just fancy marketing at this point". Read the test data, sit behind one yourself...new gen anchors ARE BETTER! PERIOD! I do, however, agree that if you hold in a good blow on whatever anchor, you are sold. This is more than that though. Do the research and you will find there is a reason people swear by new gen anchors and it is not because they are drinking the coolaid.

I'd be interested to see *objective* data, can you point me to some?
(And articles in cruising and sailing magazines don't count -- especially when the advertisement for Superanchor appears next to the article!)

[sneuman]

paccrest --

I did a search and see some data, but it seems to all come from the same Sail/YM article. It's intriguing, and something worth exploring, but I find it hard to believe that the CQR would not set. I have used the anchor dozens of times and it has never once failed to set. What to make of that?!

I'm still skeptical of the sailing magazines, who have a vested interest in advertising from manufacturers. Not exactly saying I don't believe their tests, but I would need to see repeatable results from more than one independent test.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I have a Manson Supreme and am happy with it.

But I'm really reading the thread waiting for Rex and his sidekick JJ to show up and rip you guys a new one.

No new ones. But reading the "my Rocna brings up heaps of bottom" comments reminds me why I love my Sarca Excel, dives deep stays in comes up clean, not that I am a clean freak, but it doesn't destroy sea grass bottoms and it will have a much better chance of resetting.

I'm still skeptical of the sailing magazines, who have a vested interest in advertising from manufacturers. Not exactly saying I don't believe their tests, but I would need to see repeatable results from more than one independent test.

yeah, some publications and internet forums require advertising to get a fair go. Doesn't mean the reviews are biased, but it doesn't help with confidence in the impartiality.

[avb3]

New generation is the way to go.

For various reasons, I choose a Mantus. Second day out i t survived 50 knot winds in south Florida while we were under a tornado warning.

Didn't budge an inch from when I anchored.

I was happy.

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Buy a Spade or Ultra instead of the Rocna, then you won't need to make any modifications to accommodate the roll bar. Keep the other two anchors for spares.

That would be great advice in Europe. In Aus/NZ, the advice would be to buy an Excel. But in North America, the only cost effective new gen anchor without a roll bar (and not a fortress) is the Manson Boss.

The only downside is a lack of testing data on it. I have one and love it, but haven't truly tested it. Others have and have had success. Manson's own testing with a tug boat ran into trouble because they kept bending the largest shackles they could buy before getting it to budge.