Thoughts on sizing Lewmar Primary winches

[Popeye.Tom]

I am going to go ahead and drop an order for new Lewmar winches in the West Marine BOGO - only a few days left. I know, I know, inflated list price, etc - but my research is that on the BOGO, these are still a good deal.

I only bought the boat last year. My current winches are not self tailing and for single handed or short handed, the self tailing would be super nice. Old school cruiser, under powered by today's standards.

The boat: Pearson 365 ketch
100% roller furler = 308 sq ft/28.6 m^2
main = 212 sq ft/19.7m^2
Current Primary: 43 (two, of course) Main/cabin top: 16 (one only)

I want to put two 16s on the cabin top and eventually some rope clutches.

???? Questions - your thoughts ????

1- Aluminum or chromed bronze? I'm thinking chrome bronze, but the aluminum drum is probably less $. I was thinking chrome looks better on the old school boat, but maybe I should worry.

2- According to Lewmar's size chart, with the 100%, I sit right in the middle of winch size 40. But, if I had (which I don't at this time) a 150% (460 sq ft), that really puts it more to a 46 size or really at the far side of their recommendation for a 40.

Do you think it's worth the extra $ for the bigger winch? Then Ocean or EVO?


Divide price show in 1/2 for the BOGO...

Ocean 40, chrome, $1650
EVO 45, chrome, $1900
Ocean 46, chrome, $2200

[Popeye.Tom]

Having written and posted that, then thinking of my own statement, "old school cruiser"


As a cruiser - reef early... With that said, I'm really thinking the Ocean 40 size is fine for my purposes.


Can anyone dissuade me from that decision? In reality, the price diff isn't huge over the live of the winches - but I could still spend the savings on other boat candy!


Tom

[Jim Cate]

I doubt if anyone has ever said "I wish my winches were smaller and less powerful". Remember that in the future there may be a time when you (or some yet unknown crew) might be physically impaired and be damn glad of the extra leverage.

I know which way I would go!

Jim

[Popeye.Tom]

If I opt up to the EVO 45 chrome, it is only $125 more per winch and I keep the chromed bronze drum. Amortized over 10 years - $12.50 per year!

Then again, the engineer in me pops up. I look at the relative ratio difference... 45/40 = 1.125 If a 12-1/2% greater output is going to make or break the the cruise, we may have greater problems.

Desired sheet tension: 800# load. Using theoretical multiplication, no friction component adjustment.

number 40 winch - - - 800 ÷ 40 = 20# on the winch handle
number 45 winch - - - 800 ÷ 45 = 17.8# on the winch handle.

Difference is 2.2 pounds less force on the winch handle with the 45.

"I doubt if anyone has ever said "I wish my winches were smaller and less powerful"." Point taken. Yeah, that is very much true, I doubt anyone has said that!

Thanks for the reply Jim. (And I promise not to ask about washing or waxing my new drums! ) We'll have to wait and see if this thread goes sideways!

If I opt for the 40s, I can spend the saved $ and build a fuel polisher so I can avoid running into any Baltimore bridges 'cause of dirty fuel!

Cheers,
Tom

[Jim Cate]

Tom, one other point... bronze vs aluminium: I've had both and in fact, never noted any difference in longevity. Either type will last a long time. There is a considerable difference in weight if you are concerned with that factor. Do check to see if they incorporate any plastic parts in their construction... some winches on the market these days do, and that is a red flag to me. Also I recall posts reporting the stripper arm bending on some current models... don't recall which ones, but a search of CF might bring that data up.

And FWIW, our 34 year old, many many mile veteran chrome/bronze Barients are working just fine with their original bearings, pawls and little springs. Our similarly aged ARCO bronze winches have had various failures and are IMO quite inferior. There are differences between brands!

Jim

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Tom, one other point... bronze vs aluminium: I've had both and in fact, never noted any difference in longevity. Either type will last a long time. There is a considerable difference in weight if you are concerned with that factor. Do check to see if they incorporate any plastic parts in their construction... some winches on the market these days do, and that is a red flag to me. Also I recall posts reporting the stripper arm bending on some current models... don't recall which ones, but a search of CF might bring that data up.

And FWIW, our 34 year old, many many mile veteran chrome/bronze Barients are working just fine with their original bearings, pawls and little springs. Our similarly aged ARCO bronze winches have had various failures and are IMO quite inferior. There are differences between brands!

Jim

INDEED!
The heavier, more expensive, chromed bronze winch drims might be expected outlast anodized aluminum, but even the aluminum drums should last well over 20 years, in typical cruising duty.

According to Lewmar:
For short-handed crews, the revolutionary REVO® back-winding winch makes sail handling a breeze.
They come with an aluminum black anodized drum.
➥ https://www.lewmar.com/content/evo-race-winches
➥ https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...FnoECCsQAQ&usg
➥ https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...rA3rOsoAiSbjK8

[Popeye.Tom]

Thanks for replies Gord and Jim!

It's a done deal, the order is in for four new winches.

I downloaded the mounting drill patterns and replacement part guides. I ended up talking with Lewmar USA.

My decision for the primaries are the 45ST Evo. I also then switched the Ocean to Evo for the cabin top. Both in chrome bronze. I like the chrome on the old boat better than the anodized aluminum and the weight savings just didn't feel consequential to me.

The deciding point is the safe working load, not the winch handle force to obtain the same sheet tension.
- The safe working load for the 40 is 1753#/795kg.
- The safe working load for the 45/46 is 2646#/1200kg.

The #40 have a smaller mounting bolt circle, use 1/4/m6 fasteners. The #45/46 have a larger bolt circle and use 5/16/m8 fasteners.

I decided that the lower strain with the larger base & stem and working at a lower place on the SFW load curve was worth the extra bit.

Thanks again for the input!

Cheers,
Tom