which country to register in?

[markiobe]

Originally Posted by blubaju

You didn't mention your country, my yacht was built in Philippines, registered in Austria. No survey, no tax (property), no VAT as long as you don't enter EU waters, registration fee next to nothing, even exemption from CE, but take care about your engines, you might need to provide their EU-compatible pollution certificate I was asked for; no big political enemies in this world. But you must be resident.

hmm... we're either Spanish or British so no Austrian residency. I'll have a look at owning through an Austrian company, thanks!

[markiobe]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

The British is one of the cheapest around.

I fail to see what it has to do with insurance tax unless you choose to get insurance from the same country that the boat is flagged in.

You cannot get a British registration unless you have an address in the country. Of course that is easy to get around.

Someone mentioned Cook Islands. The registration is $800 for a 12m to 24m boat. I'm not sure what benefit there is in paying that.

Better to just choose the cheapest respectable country whos laws you like.

Since you have no interest in visiting the UK or the EU, VAT is of no consequence.

I was told by Pantaenius that they charge an insurance tax based on the flag?? I know nothing more than that...

We have a UK address so no issue there. Are you saying that if you are GB flagged and haven't paid VAT you are liable the minute you sail into EU waters? Or is there a time period by which you must have left in order not to be considered to be importing?

[moseriw]

Originally Posted by slug

A non resident can fly the GB flag

The GB flag is on the IMO white list

The GB flag is not expensive

The GB flag gave you access to the European Union

THAT IS NOT TRUE!!!
A NON Resident can NOT fly the british flag. NO WAY!
Believe me I tried and even with my UK based offshore company it was not possible.

[moseriw]

Next: the VAT-Status has nothing to do with the flag but the owner and the proof of VAT through european customs. This is usually a document called T2L.


Whichever Flag you fly! If you present the valid T2L to the customs you are fine.

[TomThumb]

There are few restrictions and therefore plenty of permutations for what you plan. VAT is related to purchase/importing and you may be able to avoid but if/when you circumnavigate, it may come up when you pass through EU jurisdictions.

Perhaps the other way to look at it, aside from VAT, is complexity when crossing borders. Crew will have a particular passport which implies citizenship but you might also see folk with residency in another country and these decide your personal tax circumstances.

If you then run a business, you have choices where and how to register and pay any taxes but there is a simplicity in having it the same as your personal tax so you aren't delaying with foreign ownership or income. Same laws, maybe same accountant. The boat is another angle but again, flagging and registering in your home country might have some higher costs over somewhere super cheap but is again in your home jurisdiction and if you ran a business from your 'home' there might be deductions you could claim based on your home office costs (at least internet and so on?) and also be easier to decipher in a first language and so on. There may also be some benefits in EU jurisdictions like NL and FR territories in Pacific and Caribbean?

There are ways to avoid all sorts of taxes but they come with a degree of hassle and the ROI in effort and making it happen are yours to decide.

The other implications of the flagging is the perception that one is 'better' in terms of how you are received in a particular country. Just like your passport, these days it doesn't really matter but occasionally politics plays into it.

So, my suggestion is to start with your nationality and look at all the costs of keeping it simple then compare to the options offered in the forum. You might decide its not worth enough to bother but you need that baseline.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by moseriw

THAT IS NOT TRUE!!!
A NON Resident can NOT fly the british flag. NO WAY!
Believe me I tried and even with my UK based offshore company it was not possible.

Owning a boat through a UK company doesn't make much sense from what I understand. You will be charged income tax on the boat each year as a benefit in kind.

Yep, you are supposed to be a resident, but normally an address is sufficient as there are no checks.

[moseriw]

Originally Posted by markiobe

hmm... we're either Spanish or British so no Austrian residency. I'll have a look at owning through an Austrian company, thanks!

AUSTRIA: ok it is not cheap but your documents are valid for 10 years.
I remember that I paid - with the help of an agent - around 800€.


The mean problem is the VHF device which costs around 120€/year in AT and nothing in the UK (yes a very small registration fee)

[Dsanduril]

For Europe, the US,Canada, NZ, Australia taxes and/or duties are generally only due when the vessel enters the country (or the union in the case of the EU), especially if owned by a resident. Don't know about the smaller countries/flags of convenience.

Easiest registration is usually the country of residence and/or country of citizenship (it just simplifies things). If your country doesn't charge tax until the vessel's arrival, and if you never intend to actually bring the vessel there (for an EU resident that means all of the EU) then just register in your home country unless it is difficult for some reason or you have a particular reason to avoid your home country.

We don't see very many cruising boats that aren't registered in the home country of at least one of the owners, probably because the other registrations take more paperwork and coordination.

[moseriw]

And I think Cook Islands is out of discussion:

Cost to register a yacht under 24 meters
Cost: $3,300 USD which includes Cook Islands fees. Fees include a Radio Licence, International Call Sign and MMSI number, all of which last the same time as the registration. We give free advice and support during the whole period of registration.

[ccannan]

This has been discussed many times on the forum. I'm not sure why you couldn't find any of those threads.

FWIW, register in Jersey.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by moseriw

And I think Cook Islands is out of discussion:

Cost to register a yacht under 24 meters
Cost: $3,300 USD which includes Cook Islands fees. Fees include a Radio Licence, International Call Sign and MMSI number, all of which last the same time as the registration. We give free advice and support during the whole period of registration.

UK is £25 for 5 years. Probably the best deal out there. Ships radio licence is free. Insurance Premium tax is 12% on the insurance premium and is paid to the insurance company, used to be 6%.

Also countries like Spain, Portugal, Greece etc.. have strict rules around flares, fire extinguishers and other safety equipment.

In some countries you have to have a life raft capable of carrying the maximum number of passengers listed on the vessel documentation. They could mean carrying a 8-12 man liferaft. If only two of you are actually using the boat, then that liferaft would be useless if you needed it.

No such safety requirements in the UK until you start registering larger boats on the main ships register.

[Huskybeer]

Originally Posted by slug

A non resident can fly the GB flag

The GB flag is on the IMO white list

The GB flag is not expensive

The GB flag gave you access to the European Union

Emphasis is on gave!
You can visit European waters without paying vat, as long as you observe to be no longer than 6 months in EU territorial waters.
To circumvent that you document all your passages that are longer than 24 hours in international waters. Then the counter is reset when you enter the EU again.
I registered my British registered boat in Holland by deregidteting it in England. Interestingly enough the British insurance is still cheaper gig the Dutch registered boat.

[GinTonic]

Originally Posted by markiobe

Sorry if this is dealt with elsewhere, I searched but didn't find, If someone could point me at an existing thread?? 👍.

Otherwise: we are European, will be having a boat built in Thailand and plan to start cruising from there. We have zero intention of sailing the boat back to Europe and have no patriotic need to sail under a particular flag. We expect to be tropics cruisers and over the next decade or so will probably circumnavigate, but we have no set plans, we'll see where we end up going.

Are there any benefits and/or constraints to registering under one flag as opposed to another? If so could someone summarise? The only thing I'm aware of are the different rates of insurance tax in different countries but there must be other reasons... maybe not! Also if anyone knows of a good source of info about this topic I'd appreciate a link.

Thanks in advance!

I purchased my vessel from Moorings in Belize, it had a Canadian Flag and I had to reflag it because they only allow Canadian Citizens. Looking around I found the best bet was JAMAICA .

The popularity of the Jamaican flag as the registration choice for yachts and superyachts seems to be continually on the rise. The flag was launched at the end of 2012 and has benefited from new legislation, designed to make Jamaica more “ yacht friendly”.

Jamaica Yacht Registry outlines many advantages to the Jamaican flag, including:

Practical and realistic levels are assigned based upon the size, area of operation and use of the yacht
Recognition of the MCA’s Large Yacht Code, Marshall Island’s Yacht Code, and other flags’ safety standards
Allowance for unclassed yachts under 500 GT to be commercially certified
One of a select few nations to be authorized a US Cruising License
No restrictions for commercial yachts to charter in Europe.
One of the most popular features is the fact that the requirements can be adapted, based on the yacht and crew size. Jamaica also offers 15 ports of registry to choose from.

Jamaica is in a position to benefit from its historical ties to the United Kingdom, while having the independence to develop their own “customised” interpretations of British law. Customs duty, customs user fees and general consumption tax on Jamaican-registered yachts were scrapped in favour of a single annual fee. Jamaica’s information minister pledged that it would “stimulate nautical tourism and yacht registration in Jamaica.”

www.jamaicayachts.com

FOR MY TONIC III , Beneteau 42.3 , the annual cost is $750 , I do everything online

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[rmlarson1098]

Originally Posted by markiobe

Sorry if this is dealt with elsewhere, I searched but didn't find, If someone could point me at an existing thread?? 👍.

Otherwise: we are European, will be having a boat built in Thailand and plan to start cruising from there. We have zero intention of sailing the boat back to Europe and have no patriotic need to sail under a particular flag. We expect to be tropics cruisers and over the next decade or so will probably circumnavigate, but we have no set plans, we'll see where we end up going.

Are there any benefits and/or constraints to registering under one flag as opposed to another? If so could someone summarise? The only thing I'm aware of are the different rates of insurance tax in different countries but there must be other reasons... maybe not! Also if anyone knows of a good source of info about this topic I'd appreciate a link.

Thanks in advance!

We were looking at a sailboat in Malaysia a few years back, and the broker strongly suggested we consider Malaysia to flag the boat. We did (casually) consider registering the vessel there but did not follow up. Did seem to have several advantages, and was far less expensive than Malta. Best of luck!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Huskybeer

Emphasis is on gave!
You can visit European waters without paying vat, as long as you observe to be no longer than 6 months in EU territorial waters.
To circumvent that you document all your passages that are longer than 24 hours in international waters. Then the counter is reset when you enter the EU again.
I registered my British registered boat in Holland by deregidteting it in England. Interestingly enough the British insurance is still cheaper gig the Dutch registered boat.

I think you will find the boat is fine for 17mths and 29 days then one has to remove it from EU waters for a couple of days to restart the clock..
Think complications are greater for the crews.
People keep forgetting.. the UK is No Longer in the EU.