[rabbi]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

yes Im talking of Mahe
and no I havent had the pleasure



the comparisons Im drawing are from the equipment fit, yes the resulting experience is going to be completely different, but thats the whole reason Im making the comparison, bang for buck.

I think the 380 is just going out the bit extra, an extra head is common, theres an owners cabin version with a walk round berth. Its like a smaller version of the 440 pattern, you cant say that about the Mahe.

These are far more complex fitouts when you come to cost the materials and work required. In a way one could say that the Mahe offers a great deal in its plan and fitout, and it does so in a lightweight and cost effective way. That 'is' an achievement.

Trouble is that doesnt seem to me to be reflected in the pricing when they become within the price range of the unwashed such as I. Although I would have to concede I might be comparing replaced bareboats 380's with the Mahe's, its hard to tell.

I guess Im just disappointed that the Mahe is popular and costs that margin more second hand. And that I think I might prefer the simpler and lighter when it comes to fitout.

Based on your comment you haven't been aboard a Lagoon 380 OV either. There is no walkaround berth in the 380. This doesn't even fit into the Lagoon 39 or 400.

I have owned an older Lagoon 410 for a couple of years before I bought my Mahe and I have spent quite some time aboard a few 380s so I guess I can compare.

The Mahe is slightly shorter than the 380, in terms of waterline it's less than a foot. The hulls are wider in the Lagoons, this provides room for the head (or owners desk) beside the companion way and a bit more floor space in the aft cabin.
Carrying capacity is higher, but then empty displacement is higher, too.

Creature comfort:
The berths are almost equally sized. The Lagoon offers a bit more floor space and I like the big windows on the S2 models. Lagoons have doors for the lockers while the Mahe only has open shelfing. Looks a bit more simple and cheap but we are OK with this.
The front cabin is a tad smaller on the Mahe, the bow compartments are too small for a crew berth unless you hire a dwarf.

To call the Mahe galley tiny is simply wrong. Size and useability are equal to the 410 and 380. Not excellent as you can never have enough counterspace with galley up in a cat of this size but OK.
Galley storage and fridge size in the early Mahes is as good as the 380 but not as good as the 410. In the Mahe Evolution it's better than 380 and the 410.

I know the Mahe salon looks simple, but it's just the looks. It's ergonomics are better than on a 380 or 410 with the rounded settee. It took the french designers just about a decade to figure out that you can't comfortably put your feet up and read a book on a round settee. All current Lagoon & FP models changed to the boxy square design.
Earlier Mahes like mine lack the addition stool in front of the table so have limited seating & storage but that's an easy and cheap fix.
The navigation area on the Mahe is on par with the 380. The nav area on the 410 was a waste of space and an ergonomical nightmare.

The Mahe cockpit is on par with the early 380, the later 380 S2 had an optional built-in ice-box for additional seating so a bit better. The 410 cockpit is clearly much bigger and suited to entertaining 6-8 for al-fresco dinner while the Mahe table maxes out at 4 (5 with a portable stool).
The flush hardtop bimini is a big plus on the Mahe, the bimini of the 380 or 410 are a bit ugly. But older Mahe require some modification as it's not a full hardtop but only a solid centerpiece with canvas sides.

What I dislike about the Mahe is that some furnishing is not fully screwed / glued & sealed against the hull. The furniture is not an integral part of the boat, it just "stands" in the boat and is fixed at the bulkheads and floor. For example there are gaps between the hull and the cabin lockers, which is good to minimize squeaking in a swell but gives less privacy (e.g. the kids in the bow cabin can hear us talk in the salon).
I also dislike the "curver style" fibreglass steps into the hull. The wooden steps of the Lagoon are much nicer.
The Mahe deck seems to flex a bit more under my weight (OK, my fault), but I never noticed any flexing of the hulls while underway.


Overall the Lagoon 380 has a minuscule bit more room to offer in the cabin, salon and cockpit area. The owners version in particular is nice with a big head and dedicated shower, but the charter version has only two tiny heads with no room to shower. The single head of the Mahe is way bigger, but not as roomy as the 380 owners version.

The fitout of the Mahe is a bit lighter than on Lagoons, but the quality of the work is on par. Overall I see no huge difference in the fitout.
It is not a different class of boat, and certainly not a far more complex fitout or equipment. Just different and a minuscule bit bigger.


Sailing:
From a sailing perspective the Mahe is quicker and more responsive. Lower displacement, sleek hulls and good sail area pay off in better tacking angles and overal higher speed. But as soon as the seastate gets too rough the Mahe is bouncing and hobby horsing a bit more, slowing her down when beating against the wind. The weight and the wide hulls of the Lagoons provide more stability.
Some FP equipment seems a bit smaller than Lagoon, other equipment is on par or even oversized. Winches, some blocks and the ventilation hatches for example are smallish, but the windlass and autopilot ram are the same as on my Lagoon 410.
The construction is a bit different, with Lagoon using balsa core above the waterline and FP using foam core. I prefer foam, as potential water intrusion is not such a threat.
One big plus is to me the amount of foam floatation that the Mahe has built in. In the lower half of the bow compartment, under the central part of the settee, and under the after part of the aft berths. That's a few tons of flotation, while Lagoon are said to be sinkers (not sure and no intention to find out).


Bottom line: For coastal cruising I prefer the Mahe for the fun of sailing, though she is by no means limited to this. For crossing oceans I prefer the 410 simply for space, carrying capacity and smoother ride. The 380 is somewhere in the middle.
I would buy any of these in an instant, it just depends on price and availability. In fact I was looking for a 380 and lost some sort of bidding war on a 400 last year when I stumbled over a nice Mahe. We are really happy with the boat, especially with regard to "bang for the buck".
We might be tempted to upgrade to a late 410 S2 or an early 400 if we run into a real bargain but I'm not actively hunting for one. The perceived improvement from a Mahe to the Lagoon 380 is way too small for us to be worth the hassle of changing boats.


BTW: The price difference between Mahe and the 380 is maybe 5% on the price list but on the second hand market its more like 15-20%.
Yachtworld shows a couple of 2006-2008 Mahes below 140k Euro. Lagoon 380 are asking around 160-180k for the same vintage, and I haven't seen an owners version for that price.

Of course this is still very expensive compared to a 36ft mono but that doesn't compare well in terms of space and comfort. At the end the Mahe is one of the cheapest way to own a modern production cat.
With the recent end of the production for the Mahe I doubt it will get any cheaper.