Electronics installation/location strategy

[blinkerfluid]

Hi All,

My wife and I just bought a new-to-us boat (Island Packet 420) and are planning a big refit. As part of the refit we're going to replace/update the electronics suite on the boat.

We will be living/cruising on the boat full time and I'm looking for installation strategies/suggestions for placement of the new electronics for the best usability. For example, should I install the MFD at the helm in a sailpod, or MFD mounted in fwd cockpit bulkhead, or MFD at the nav station down below with a tablet at the helm for reference, or 2 MFDs (One at Nav station and other in cockpit), or ????

Electronics will include at least a 9" MFD, 3 sail instruments and an autopilot control unit. We'll also have Radar and AIS transceiver.

I kind of like the idea of having the MFD down below with a Tablet to view data on in the cockpit, but only if the connection between the 2 is reliable enough to do that. Having Radar and AIS is pointless if you can't view it in the cockpit.

Please post up some pictures of your current electronics setups and let me know what you like/dislike and what you might change if you could.

[GILow]

Personally, I don’t get the plotter-down-below approach. I think it is a legacy of the old paper-charts-and-sextant era when navigation took a lot of time. Not relevant any more, neither is a chart table.

I have the plotter just inside the deckhouse, on an arm that swings it out to be visible from the helm when needed. I use it in the deckhouse to plan my approach or check my COG. AIS and radar are fed as overlays to the plotter.

Downstairs I use a laptop with OpenCPN for planning/daydreaming.

A tablet or something that needs to be held in the cockpit sounds like a recipe for disaster. I need both my hands for sailing, a tablet would be over the side in minutes.

[blinkerfluid]

Oh, that's a good point.. I didn't even think about using a laptop down below.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by blinkerfluid

Oh, that's a good point.. I didn't even think about using a laptop down below.

OpenCPN is very, very good.

And remember, during your refit, a dining table with good fiddles makes a perfectly adequate chart table for all but the most hard-core paper-based navigator.

[Paul L]

The MFD should be located so it is very handy to the person on watch. Most people spend their watch time tucked under the dodger.

[Snore]

You can replace it all, or upgrade what needs upgrading. Depth and speed sensors can work with the new stuff for a fraction of replacement.

I am a HUGE fan of the Vesper XB-8000 with Wi-Fi AIS transceiver. It will take NMEA 0183 SeaTalk NG/NMEA2k and smiling it all out on Wi-Fi that OpenCPN or a host of other programs can use. This is very different than Ray or Garmin Wi-Fi that is proprietary and only works with their software.

My suggestion is get a MFD that you like, NOT touch screen, and build off of that.

My personal boat has a smorgasbord— VHF and Garmin 440 on 0183, depth and speed on SeaTalk1 and finally Ray autopilot on. SeaTalkNG all running with Veaper 8k/Wi-Fi. The Garmin can drive the AP and the AP can repeat info from anywhere. All this is repeatable on my iPad or Mac running various software.

[Frankly]

GPS chartplotter/ radar display/ autopilot control / VHF (remote mic) at helm, instruments fwd so visible from cockpit. I think that VHF and GPS chart plotter are important enough to have redundant sets below.

Our helm GPS is configured for heading/ course up. The below chart plotter is North Up which makes putting in way points a lot easier. Track info to way points from below are displayed at helm via network connections. AIS info from VHF is displayed on helm chartplotter also network.


I am old school RM Seatalk/ NMEA 0183 which works great, but all new stuff probably NMEA 2000 (IMO pushed by mfg as a money maker not because better).


Frankly

[ilenart]

on my new (to me) yacht I have a B&G T12 Chartplotter mounted under the dodger, which is great when we are undertaking passages. However when we are entering bays with lots of rocks I miss having a chartplotter at the helm as a quick secondary reference to visual navigation. Tried using an ipad at the helm, however I found that trying to view in full sunlight was not feasible. Not sure what the solution is. I also run a laptop at the nav station, which works fine. May look at a portable Chartplotter at the helm, which could also be used as a backup in the nav station (in case the laptop gets wet).

below is the B&G Chartplotter under the dodger



Ilenart

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by blinkerfluid

Please post up some pictures of your current electronics setups and let me know what you like/dislike and what you might change if you could.

For 12 years we have been coastal sailing with over night legs and day sailing in tricky coastal waters. I put a 5" Garmin CP in place of the compass which has been brilliant for pilotage. I also put an older C80 under the sprayhood for back up when the auto pilot is on and I want to shelter from inclement weather.

Recent upgrades have been replacing the autopilot, then a new Raymarine Element 9 under the sprayhood with AIS transponder below. The Raymarine Element has buttons rather than touch screen which I wanted with wet and cold fingers.

All linked with NMEA 2000 (Raymarine NG) which has been childs play, very much plug and play. Garmin and B&G have similar, just choose your poison.

You are right to look at 9" plotters. I saw a radar display on a 7" plotter but because the screen is in landscape mode the top and bottom of the radar circle is chopped off if you want to read it clearly. With the 9" display you could see the full circle clearly. this was the deciding factor to go for the 9" so we can add radar in the future.

Chart table is reserved for the local chart and the log book, updated every couple of hours. A laptop with Open CPN or wifi and a tablet would be other options. However, the reality is in busy coastal waters we need Mk1 eyeballs on deck all the time. Easily visible plotters assist the watch keeping and passage decisions.

Pete

[s/v Moondancer]

We sailed 40,000nm with the chartplotter in the location shown by ilenart. Certainly the best place for long, cold and wet night watches and watching the radar and correlating it with the AIS.

However, we were always 2 handed and for difficult entries one could watch the chartplotter and correlate the chartplotter with #1eyeball on the aids to navigation while the other helmed the boat and kept a wide angled #1eyeball. We had a repeater plotter at the chart table for navigation and logbook entries.

If I were singlehanded I might put the chartplotter at the helm.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by blinkerfluid

Electronics will include at least a 9" MFD, 3 sail instruments and an autopilot control unit. We'll also have Radar and AIS transceiver.

I kind of like the idea of having the MFD down below with a Tablet to view data on in the cockpit, but only if the connection between the 2 is reliable enough to do that. Having Radar and AIS is pointless if you can't view it in the cockpit.

You didn't mention VHF, but I'd suggest one at the helm. When we try to hail sailors to offer a slow pass, we often hear crickets... I suspect sometimes because their radio is on or functioning, or sometimes because their radio is below at the nav station and not audible/usable from the helm. (I've even used our loudhailer a couple times, when it seemed the folks ahead were simply oblivious... a very inelegant solution.)

Your intent to have an AIS transceiver sounds good; it's a great help for us when passing to be able to hail a boat by name, sort out passing sides and speed, etc.

-Chris

[blinkerfluid]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I like the idea of having the main chartplotter on the cabin top on one side of the companionway, but I don't think that'll work on our boat as we have winches on both sides of the companionway.

We'll definitely have a VHF at the helm, even if it's just a remote mic for the main unit at the chart table.

I know I could probably keep some of the stuff I have, but I'd rather just not mess with trying to get different brands to work with each other.

At this point I'm leaning towards a B&G system, so I think my ideal setup would be a 9" zeus 3 in a pod at the helm with a trident2 display and autopilot control mounted in the cockpit side/seat back to the left of the helm. Our boat already has 3 sailing instrument displays mounted in the fwd bulkhead of the cockpit on the starboard side, so I suppose I'll reuse those cutouts (though I don't like having them there since that's a great backrest for lounging and protected by the dodger). I'll probably put a blank over one of the holes and just have 2 trident2 displays for wind/depth in that location. I'm leaning towards one of the new V-60 VHFs with integrated AIS transciever at the chart table with a wireless remote at the helm. If I want to go all out, I may add a 9" Vulcan at the chart table as well, but all this is already absurdly expensive and I could just use a tablet or laptop instead (which I already have).

[Pete7]

Sounds sensible and you could always wait and see what you want to do at the chart table, particularly since adding a CP later only needs to extend the network cable.

What are you doing about depth displays? we have the ST60s above the companion way hatch which is easy to see at a glance from anywhere in the cockpit. I think you also have something similar on one side of the companion way. We also have the helm plotter fitted with a sounder unit (fish finder) which is very useful when we are crawling into shallow water. They play nicely together when separated by perhaps 20ft and different frequencies.

Pete

[blinkerfluid]

Yea, we have something similar, but instead of being mounted centerline over the companion way hatch, ours are mounted into the fwd bulkhead of the cockpit just to the starboard side of the companion way opening. I think the biggest problem with this location is that if you want to lounge in the cockpit, stretched out on the seats facing aft, then you end up leaning against the instruments for your seat back. I think having them over the companionway hatch makes more sense, and I could move mine, but then I'd have to figure out what to do with the 3 big holes left from the existing install.


A dual depth transducer setup sounds pretty interesting.. although I think if I were going to do that, I'd probably go with a FWD scan setup, though I'm still not totally convinced of the practicality of one of those units.

[Zzmeyer]

I don't think any of the MFD are as powerful and flexible as a good tablet. The two big advantages of the MFD is water resistance and day light visibility. That led me to the conclusion I needed the MFD at the helm (primarily for close in navigation). At the chart table the tablet is protected. Likewise, under the dodger, I find it sufficiently protected to be readable.