Wharram Catamarrans advice sought for

[alansmith]

Thanks Guys, that is the feedback i am looking for. I am looking at trailerable or a cat/tri between 35-40 foot...ala Jim Brown, Marples, etc.

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Uncivil, yup, have been to the websites and pondered the great literature. I have taken the time. Part of the knowledge base should always be built from either personal experience or from those who aren't trying to sell you something. That is why I posed the question of what have CF members experienced.


Some people say the Wharram's don't go to weather well. Some say they don't tack well. I know they are a Spartan set up...Well, time to go to the salt mines and earn my keep. But when I put in Wharram Cat's under the CF search engine nothing showed up...or I did something wrong...which is a real possibility...smile

I'm one of those that can say for certain they don't go to weather well and they don't tack well but then I don't think any cat really does either of those well and especially if loaded for cruising.

[SkiprJohn]

Trailerable and cruising I'd look a Seaward monohulls.

[Scout 30]

I'll admit I've backwinded the jib more than once but she'll usually come around if you're patient.

[phalo]

Yes the Wharram is a lovely safe boat having owned and sailed sailed a 23 Tiki or similar off PNG in SE trade winds 40 years ago when young, agile and idealistic, and have to question any pointing claims with my sprit rig at the time.
Last year, feeling nostalgic, I crewed a 42ft Pahl north to Cairns from the Whitsundays in Australia and never felt safer in a cat with 30k following wind and seas that drowned a Japanese tourist off Fitzroy Is. the day we arrived.
I'm a few years over when some retire and found the Wharram as uncomfortable as I expected from internal cross beams in the hulls that could knock you flat if you are over 5'7" ,ladders into hulls and the uneven deck structure to catch you unaware at night, even if you didn't leave your glasses below.
So no, I don't think a Wharram is for your wife, or you, no matter how agile you believe you are right now, or in 5 years time.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

I'm one of those that can say for certain they don't go to weather well and they don't tack well but then I don't think any cat really does either of those well and especially if loaded for cruising.

You're right about Wharrams, wrong about other cat's.

[Scout 30]

Gentlemen don't sail to weather. Gentlemen don't own Wharrams. Therefore genglemen buy a boat that to make their wife happy & end up with a boat that neither of them likes.

[alansmith]

Scout...u cracking me up....smile

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

You're right about Wharrams, wrong about other cat's.

Sorry to lump all cats in the same category. It's just been my experience and admittedly I've only experienced a very few. I think maybe the ones I've been aboard were overloaded for weekends and cruising.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

Sorry to lump all cats in the same category. It's just been my experience and admittedly I've only experienced a very few. I think maybe the ones I've been aboard were overloaded for weekends and cruising.

Overloading will certainly effect boat speed, but not normally pointing ability unless very unevenly loaded.

We had guests aboard recently and moved about 300lbs of crap to the port aft cabin to clear another cabin for guests...and brought guests and gear aboard. Noticed while motoring that I was running about 1/2 knot slower than normal. Thought maybe I had some gunk on the props, but they were fine. Guests left and we redistributed the load back to its normal places...and that 1/2 knot magically reappeared!

[Bulawayo]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

I'm one of those that can say for certain they don't go to weather well and they don't tack well but then I don't think any cat really does either of those well and especially if loaded for cruising.

Hi John,
Many years ago I would have agreed with your sentiments - I was a dyed in the wool mono-hull sailor and nothing could tempt even to set foot upon a horrible catamaran. Then a close friend begged me to crew with him on his 38ft cat from Cape Town to Durban. We got clobbered by a south wester 'buster' - wind against current and the famous appalling weather syndrome enveloped us. I knew we were going to have to call out the NSRI.
Two days later, we emerged unscathed and fairly well rested and fed. I appreciated that had we been in my 47ft mono-hull we would have been OK as well, but would have been exhausted. That peaked my interest. Fast forward to 1997 and we were sailing up the East Coast of Africa and arrived in time for the Dar es Salaam to Tanga yacht race, which is upwind. We were then sailing a little 35ft Island Spirit (the very first one on the water, hull No.3). After being ribbed about lack of sailing performance, much to my wifes annoyance, I entered the race. Due to needing water we started the race several hours late. As you can attest, cats do not go to windward! Really......? However, by late afternoon, we had caught up with the majority of the fleet, and overnight we despatched with most of them - including several flush deck racers. Despite being loaded for cruising, we managed second place. Not to shabby. I shall never forget the look on the skippers face of an Oyster that we inched past whilst my wife was standing on deck pegging out the washing while he had his crew on the weather rail plunging in and out of the chop. We purposely stole his wind and passed him 50 meters away - he was the one that goaded me into racing.
The news is; not all cats sail well, just as the same applies to a number of mono-hulls. Each to their own. I love Wharrams, but I would not wish to own one. However, they are a way to get into the sailing community & at a reasonable cost. If someone prefers a mono-hull I would not try and talk them out of their choice. Personally, I think it is hard to beat the looks of a classic mono-hull, but it is equally as difficult to beat the practicality and comfort of a good cat. Most likely, a good steel mono-hull shall be far more desirable in the Artic but I prefer a good cat in the tropics.......etc, etc, etc.

[SkiprJohn]

Thanks for the corrections. My last cat vs mono experience was more than 10 years ago and there might be a lot of improvements and the one we were sailing against might have been overloaded with a questionable skipper. Going to windward for 9 miles I was able to outpoint and outspeed a 42 foot cat in a 26 ft International Folkboat. Of course off the wind he took off but wasn't even close to catching an F-31 Corsair.

I wish I had more specifics about design of the cat to give you but they had sailed over from San Francisco after building their boat in Nevada.

[44'cruisingcat]

As an extreme example, the AC 72s were making upwind VMG's of around windspeed in about 20 knots. I don't think I've heard of any mono getting remotely close to that.


Less extreme, a mate with an 11 metre Schionning performance cruising cat regularly overtakes a 60 foot (and $1.5m) production "racer cruiser" mono on windward legs in WAGS and SAGS races out of Scarborough.

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

As an extreme example, the AC 72s were making upwind VMG's of around windspeed in about 20 knots. I don't think I've heard of any mono getting remotely close to that.


Less extreme, a mate with an 11 metre Schionning performance cruising cat regularly overtakes a 60 foot (and $1.5m) production "racer cruiser" mono on windward legs in WAGS and SAGS races out of Scarborough.

That's amazing. You might be convincing me with all these bits of information. But, you know about "old dogs and new tricks?"

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Bulawayo

...

As you can attest, cats do not go to windward! Really......? ... he was the one that goaded me into racing.
...

Ha, reminded me of sitting at anchor in the Dry Tortugas listening to a cruising acquaintance, with zero cat experience, blab the usual tired old biases. I said nothing.

Weather was a bit snotty so it was going to be a hard beat to windward back to Key West...I got there 3 hours before him. He never said much about that? ;-)