Performance cruiser recommendations

[Peregrine1983]

I would like to hear the forum’s recommendations for used performance cruising monohull models.

Since it’s impossible to precisely define “performance cruiser”, i’ll offer the following - a boat with a slippery modern hull, great upwind performance, and plenty of get up and go in little wind, yet with tankage for extended cruising. Ideally a higher quality build than beneteaus and hunters etc. The outbound 46 and J46 would come to mind for me.

Additional parameters:

< $250k USD
42-50’ LOA
7’ draft max
No bulb keels
Ideally a Pullman berth or aft cockpit

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

[TheOffice]

I'd add X Yachts, Baltics, Swans.

[psk125]

J44, since J120 is smaller than your parameters.

[Wavehiker]

X-442

[zemurray]

Bente 39 looks real interesting and very fast.

[Paul L]

The build quality and the thoughtful layout for cruising of the Outbound will be far better than the J/46. The J46 will be faster, especially in light airs. The Outbound is a fine performer offshore on passages.

The Outbound is an aft cockpit. They have a number of semi-custom below deck layouts. I think the forward berth queen bunk is the best. But I don't like pullman berths for cruising.

When we left to full time cruise we were on a J/37. Fun, easily handled offshore and fast. We decided after a few years we wanted more space and bought an Outbound 44. Have over 30,000 miles cruising on her. Excellent boat.

You might get close to your budget on an older Outbound 44. FYI, the OB 46 just has a longer swimstep.

[wingssail]

I would add a Jeanneau to your list, they are a higher performance production boat.

I would look for a boat with a deep draft, (over 6 ft for sure) and a regular slab reefing mainsail (no roller reefing main) for performance.

And I'd look for Displ/Len under 180, Sa/Displ at least 18-20 with 100% foretriangle.

Aft cockpit, rigged for spinnaker, no hydraulic steering.

Have fun.

[Jim Cate]

Ann and I were in a similar position some years ago. Looked at lots of boats, all here in Oz (due to the very favorable exchange rate at that time). None of the mass produced performance oriented boats were very inspiring to us, and many were clapped out from being raced hard and poorly maintained. The more cruising oriented models lacked the performance we sought, and for the most part, the build quality we insisted upon. We turned to one-offs and eventually found our current ride. After 16 years and 62000 + miles, we are still happy with her.

Buying a one-off requires a fair amount of research and some knowledge (either your own or hired), but can be very rewarding.

Good luck in your search,

Jim

[daletournier]

I have a Catalina 470 and so far are very happy with it.

Before others say "Catalina", have a good look at one before judging. I was in a position to buy a boat anywhere and was open to any modern design within my budget.The C470 was built better than alot of competing boats, lead keel, no liner, glassed in bulkheads, independent wheels, better tankage, bigger rigging including chain plates, very substantial bow roller set up , larger hardware ie Harken 66 winches etc. Personally I believed it compared well to a number of much more expensive boats.

I've so far crossed two oceans with her and cant complain (much lol).

It was a knowledgeable regular contributor here that directed me this way.

[jmh2002]

Whatever direction you chose make sure that the boat also has, or can be fitted with, enough sail power for light air sailing too - when fully loaded for cruising.

You can always shorten sail when it's windy, but being able to continue sailing in light air is a real advantage.

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Whatever direction you chose make sure that the boat also has, or can be fitted with, enough sail power for light air sailing too - when fully loaded for cruising.

You can always shorten sail when it's windy, but being able to continue sailing in light air is a real advantage.

Thank you all very much for the suggestions. This quote above really rings true for us as we have a conservative ketch rig find we don’t even want to reef until it’s blowing 25+.

Definitely not opposed to one offs and possibly open to Catalinas. In the research stage right now so very helpful to be reminded of Baltic, X, etc.

[Matt Johnson]

Cigale 14

Some highlights:

Amazing aft saloon with 280 degree views
ULDB boat (45' 16,000 pounds)
7' draft with water ballast keeps heel under 11 degrees
Stern step for dinghy storage
Extremely stiff aluminum construction
Huge cockpit
200 NM days!
One in the Caribbean for $260k list

Matt

[JohnAdams]

Fast boats are great. I'd be thinking operationally in my choice and trying not to think by brand. What do you love most in a boat, what do you need most, what sailing will you do, where will you sell sort of thing. Only you can answer these questions. There's also the pressure of buying a boat someone else has got right for your sort of sailing. I guess you want speed in the light, carry in the moderate, something dry with as easy a motion as possible for the sort of hull we are talking about. Something that doesn't slam too much when you must go up. An easily driven hull that doesn't demand you manage huge sails is a beautiful thing, too, though comes at the expense of internal space. Another internal contradiction you need is something that tracks perfectly in all conditions, yet has great helm feel. Also desirable are well-designed spaces that work in a bay and offshore that give decent brace positions. A galley that works. A nav station that keeps you in it no hands when a wave surprises you. Sea berths. Storage. The ability to reef in a balanced way. A secure cockpit that integrates with the water. A stem that is not so plumb the anchor tears it apart in anything but glassy conditions, or an extended bowsprit, etc, etc, etc, etc.

[mjgill1]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The build quality and the thoughtful layout for cruising of the Outbound will be far better than the J/46. The J46 will be faster, especially in light airs. The Outbound is a fine performer offshore on passages.

The Outbound is an aft cockpit. They have a number of semi-custom below deck layouts. I think the forward berth queen bunk is the best. But I don't like pullman berths for cruising.

When we left to full time cruise we were on a J/37. Fun, easily handled offshore and fast. We decided after a few years we wanted more space and bought an Outbound 44. Have over 30,000 miles cruising on her. Excellent boat.

You might get close to your budget on an older Outbound 44. FYI, the OB 46 just has a longer swimstep.

I second the Outbound. I got on hull #67 Horizon at Annapolis last October and WOW! What a boat! Truly built for cruising. I imagined being in confused seas stepping down only three large steps into the cabin. Once down there, I was never without a hand hold. Everything on that boat was rock solid and built to last. I also liked the accessibility to systems the traditional and simple yet functional layout and the centralized sea cocks and electrical. Tabbing the bulkheads is a big plus for stiffness and longevity too. Tons of storage. I was so impressed by the Outbound, I told my wife it should be awarded Best in Show. The build quality of the Outbound seemed so superior that it made many of the other boats there seem like a Macgregor. I say that in a nice way, but seriously. We went on Oyster, Southerly (now built by Discovery), Tartan and the well known production boats. The only ones that compared IMO were boats like Hylas. The Outbound 46 is at the top of my want list. I would love to get the opportunity to sail on one. I hear they sail very well.

[Bill O]

Biggest suggestion I can make is to sail your next boat offshore or in the conditions you expect to sail to check performance, how it handles, deck layout, real sea berths and how easy/safely it is to move around below in these conditions.
We did this last fall on a boat that was on our short list and were surprised on our findings. While the boat was very fast (a modern performance cruiser), IMO it slammed badly. It was a very wet boat and did not have very aggressive of nonskid, making deck work slippery.
Down below almost no hand holds for people of normal height in the wide open main cabin layout (except w/my height only I could reach them on the cabin top), poor ventilation (needed the AC on) and the only sea berths were in the main cabin or in the cockpit. The owner found it acceptable to scoot on his butt to get around the main cabin.
The boat sailed well (best point of sail was upwind) and on a deep broad reach, the rudder seemed a bit sluggish in response. Going deep down wind wasn't its best point of sail.

Needless to say we have taken this boat off of our short list. While the conditions were rigorous, we were hoping that a boat w/nearly the same "comfort ratio" of our current boat would be comfortable ride w/a longer LWL. Our current boat is an old school design, but is dry, plenty of hand holds, very comfortable to sail in a variety of conditions and live aboard w/plenty of ventilation.
Our boat isn't the fastest, but we aren't the slowest either. We have caught up to/pasted many modern performance designs. Throw up the asym. in light air and we move at air speed (which seems like a snail's pace at times).
So I guess the real question is, what are the parameters of a performance cruiser and how much livability/comfort do you have to compromise for speed? I had a very fast sports car once and while the speed is exhilarating, it wouldn't be that comfortable to drive across the US in it. That said, would still love a boat w/a 50'+ LWL to consistently do 200 nm days and comfortable.

And yes, I know all production boats are compromises, but where do you draw the line?


Bill O.