Bruce Roberts 35ft steel ketch

[Wideocean7]

A steel Bruce Roberts 35 ketch has caught my eye (see link below). She was constructed professionally by a recognised steel yacht builder here in Australia. Does anyone have any experience sailing these? The issues that I noticed on inspection are (1) that the freeboard above the water-line chine is literally vertical - no radius whatsoever. How would this handle in a decent blow? (2) the ballast/displacement ratio is about 25% - ie quite low. Would this affect stability? (3) there was spot rust throughout the hull where visible beneath the spray-on foam insulation and beneath the near-new engine. Would it be best/most cost effective to strip out the interior to treat and what would a strip out cost?

I'm looking for an ocean-capable yacht and steel has been my preference as I hope to venture to higher latitudes. I have a fair bit of experience racing and delivering GRP yachts, but this would be my first foray into a steel yacht. I would still like any yacht 'though to have good offshore sailing characteristics. The one below (to me at least) is attractive for a chined hull apart from the vertical freeboard. I haven't sailed any yacht with that hull shape so don't know how it would handle.

Appreciate any comments.

[Jim Cate]

I can't speak knowledgeably to the steel/rust issues, but IMO the low ballast ratio would be pretty dubious for high latitude venues. I think that this is often an issue in smaller steel yachts since the hull is proportionately heavier than in other construction methods... especially when well meaning amateurs "beef it up a little" over the designers scantlings (not that this is evidenced in your case).

If the pic is current, she looks tidy and well cared for... but the internal rust is a worry to my inexperienced eyes.

Jim

[Captn_Black]

Many Bruce Robert ships have been around the world, including smaller ones such as these. 35' is really on the smallest side you can build steel boats from, but I have found her extremely stable at sea - though I am junk rig, and low amounts of sail induced heel are somewhat indicative of the rig. The main negative effect of the ballast ratio for me is her tendency to pick up a roll at anchor, but there are measures you can take to dampen that. Rust is just something you're going to have to deal with at some point, and it if probably a good idea to paint her interior before you set off around the world.

[Wideocean7]

Thanks for your comments Jim. Taken on-board. Any views on a slab-sided hull? Personally I would avoid it, but it's what's on offer. Cheers Andy

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

Many Bruce Robert ships have been around the world, including smaller ones such as these. 35' is really on the smallest side you can build steel boats from, but I have found her extremely stable at sea - though I am junk rig, and low amounts of sail induced heel are somewhat indicative of the rig. The main negative effect of the ballast ratio for me is her tendency to pick up a roll at anchor, but there are measures you can take to dampen that. Rust is just something you're going to have to deal with at some point, and it if probably a good idea to paint her interior before you set off around the world.

But is not your "spray replica" quite a different design from the one in question?

Jim

[Wideocean7]

Thanks Captn Black. The million dollar question if I were to pay to strip-out the interior, how much would that cost - in guestimate terms. Then there would be the costs of sand (or whatever) blasting the internal hull, protecting it and then refitting. To me it sounds utterly exorbitant, but I dont really know. Cheers Andy

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

But is not your "spray replica" quite a different design from the one in question?

Jim

Sure, my comments were just of a general nature on steel boats this size, and my thoughts/personal experience on Bruce Roberts designs. From what I see in the pic the hull shape is very similar to mine.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Wideocean7

Thanks Captn Black. The million dollar question if I were to pay to strip-out the interior, how much would that cost - in guestimate terms. Then there would be the costs of sand (or whatever) blasting the internal hull, protecting it and then refitting. To me it sounds utterly exorbitant, but I dont really know. Cheers Andy

I really can't say, I do all the work myself. Though the sand blasting would be around $2000. It doesn't sound like your problem is that bad. Interior rust doesn't spread fast if you keep things dry. The bilge will always need doing regularly, so you might as well do that sooner rather than later.

[Jim Cate]

Andy, again I've no personal experience, but have many friends with steel yachts. The cost and time and aggravation of stripping the interior and sandblasting are beyond any rational consideration. It is a gawdawful job to even do small areas, like say a chain locker (as friends have done), let alone the habitable interior areas.

The world is full of boats for sale. If you feel that this one would require such draconian renovation, I'd keep looking.

As to the slab sidedness, well, it is more an aesthetic issue than a sea keeping one. One personal observation is that for such flat panels to look smooth and fair as these seem to from the pic, a lot of bog may well have been used to keep the "hungry dog" look away, and that has long term issues.

From a personal point of view, when we were searching for this boat we examined several steel hulled yachts. In the long run, none of them were in good enough condition rust-wise to be considered, and these were fairly high end boats with high asking prices. The ongoing maintenance required did not fit in with our cruising style, and we stopped considering such boats. Ended up with a strip planked composite hull and it has been very maintenance free for 17 years now. We would do that again!

Jim

[Captn_Black]

Jim makes a fair point, you really do have to decide if the benefits of steel are worth the costs/time. However, I think it would only be worth it in the case of a cruiser, rather than a marina boat, but that is assuming you are ok with keeping on top of the rust jobs yourself. If you are not, then look for plastic.

That said, when you are travelling to less developed countries, it is not hard to find someone to do your rust work for $50 a day.

[Michael Cobbe]

[/QUOTE]


The only way to get rid of rust and stop it coming back is to sandblast it and paint it with Zinc rich epoxy There are small sandblasters to use innside a yacht but I haven't used one: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/sb4-...SABEgJUi_D_BwE

[Fore and Aft]

Sandblasting the interior is definitely a major undertaking. As soon as you start blasting all that grit and paint goes everywhere. I think the cost could be quite high as there are a lot of hours involved in doing the job properly.
Cheers

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Sandblasting the interior is definitely a major undertaking. As soon as you start blasting all that grit and paint goes everywhere. I think the cost could be quite high as there are a lot of hours involved in doing the job properly.
Cheers

Yea, if I was in his position, I would do the best I can by hand, and seal all the panels above the waterline after with expanding foam after painting. I'm gradually replacing the current polyurethane foam sheet insulation with fire retardant fibreglass insulation board, sealing around the edge and bedding it in with expanding foam - no oxygen = no rust.

Below the waterline also do the best I can by hand, and just use a good heavy industrial zinc based primer. I know this isn't the best way to do it, and will probably only last a few years, but it is the way that many people do do it. There are plenty of guides for doing so online. In this situation I prefer to use alcohol prior to painting, as it won't damage the existing paint - if the paint doesn't come off with a grinder and wire brush, then it's probably good, no need to strip everything back to bare metal.

Theory is one thing, but the practical realities of being a liveaboard steel-hulled world cruiser is another.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Wideocean7

A steel Bruce Roberts 35 ketch has caught my eye (see link below). She was constructed professionally by a recognised steel yacht builder here in Australia. Does anyone have any experience sailing these? The issues that I noticed on inspection are (1) that the freeboard above the water-line chine is literally vertical - no radius whatsoever. How would this handle in a decent blow? (2) the ballast/displacement ratio is about 25% - ie quite low. Would this affect stability? (3) there was spot rust throughout the hull where visible beneath the spray-on foam insulation and beneath the near-new engine. Would it be best/most cost effective to strip out the interior to treat and what would a strip out cost?

I'm looking for an ocean-capable yacht and steel has been my preference as I hope to venture to higher latitudes. I have a fair bit of experience racing and delivering GRP yachts, but this would be my first foray into a steel yacht. I would still like any yacht 'though to have good offshore sailing characteristics. The one below (to me at least) is attractive for a chined hull apart from the vertical freeboard. I haven't sailed any yacht with that hull shape so don't know how it would handle.

Appreciate any comments.

JMHO, most Robert's designs in steel are hard chined to eliminate compound curves for the armature builder. Good designs. If built by a competent yard I would not be concerned. If I did the welding run.
I would not second guess his ballast ratio.

[Jono as 2234]

I owned a Boland Temptress a few yachts ago. I planned a year cruising the reef and the Islands. Steel, like everything, is both good and bad. Good as I expected to bounce off a bit of coral occasionally with only a scratch, and all islands would have a competent welder if any greater damage occurred. Also good was the multi chine design. Once up on a Chine, less wetted area and she moved along nicely. Agree the comment about hard chines for hack builders, but a mate has a Benny 45 which has re introduced a multi chine design and she goes like s... off a shovel!
The downside is mainly rust. Drop an anchor on the deck and if you don't immediately get out the sand paper and paint brush, there will be orange stains before breakfast.
They are also heavy. To sum up, if you plan to live aboard and can keep up the maintenance, can accept a fairly slow rate of progress in anything but a gale then she's a good choice. Do keep in mind that the re sale $$ will be disappointing.
Good luck