Le Marin, Martinique Jan 18-26. Best Itinerary? Other advice?

[Augi]

A cousin and I have chartered a Pogo 30 out of Le Marin, Martinique for 8 nights and 7 full days(Jan 18-26), through Open Sail. (see link)

https://www.open-sail.com/index.php/.../pogo-ria-ea,5

We have both chartered in the BVI's a number of times and participated in Antigua Race Week but never sailed out of Le Marin or nearby islands.

Any thoughts / suggestions for the itinerary would be greatly appreciated. Plus any advice in general for sailing those waters. Specifically we have heard it is possible to have negative experiences depending on where you stop in St Vincent and St Lucia.

In general there are three choices for the itinerary: Circumnavigate Martinique, Sail north to Dominica, Guadeloupe and back, and Sail south to St Lucia, St Vincent, and may be as far as Mustique, then back to Le Marin.

I ordered Doyle's Cruising Guides for the leeward and Windward Islands. I am supposed to receive today. It would be great to know about any other books, guides or resources or online that would be helpful.

The emphasis for the trip is on the sailing. We are good with doing a lot of miles, but will anchor each night. (We don't mind doing 50-60 miles in one shot on our last day to get back to Le Marin). After that we want to catch fish, snorkel and maybe do a couple of hikes. Other than the nature and stopping for provisions(fresh fish, fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, and diesel if needed), we have no interest in seeing any of the sites, etc. We prefer to anchor out in as natural places as possible versus a marina. The Pogo 30 has a 3 ft draft when the keel is retracted. Hopefully that will give us access to

We will be trolling for fish while sailing. Pretty much we just want to catch as many eatable as possible. Within that tuna is at the top of the list. Any suggestions about how to achieve the above objective for fishing would be great.

[Symphony]

Sounds like a fun cruise. If sailing is your goal - go where the wind blows! Given strong trades you can choose your kind of sailing. going north on a beam reach means you can also go south the same way. If you like a lot of wind and some seas go on the windward side of the islands, if you like less go on the leeward side but realize that the wind shadows created by the Lesser Antilles are going to cut your sailing speed significantly. There is a north bound current on the leeward side you can ride north, then you will move around to avoid it on the way south.

I've never had much luck fishing in those island waters other than catching barracuda. Also wish to avoid ciguatera. my best fishing is far further offshore for mahi/ dorado. catch a pair and you have sushi-ceviche-broiled fillet for a few days. but you might not want to spend all your vacation in a 30' boat heading out that far. If you are anchoring every night it is more fun to try the local BBQ shack or cafe.

Le Marin has good groceries available from Grande Marche - they will deliver to your boat too. you can get all the French wine, French cheese, pork chops, and sausage you want. Avoid the beef (not local). Check the fruit carefully before buying. if your boat doesn't have much freezer storage or cooking facilities you can live on fruit and beer with dinners ashore at night.

enjoy.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Symphony

Sounds like a fun cruise. If sailing is your goal - go where the wind blows! Given strong trades you can choose your kind of sailing. going north on a beam reach means you can also go south the same way. If you like a lot of wind and some seas go on the windward side of the islands, if you like less go on the leeward side but realize that the wind shadows created by the Lesser Antilles are going to cut your sailing speed significantly. There is a north bound current on the leeward side you can ride north, then you will move around to avoid it on the way south.

I've never had much luck fishing in those island waters other than catching barracuda. Also wish to avoid ciguatera. my best fishing is far further offshore for mahi/ dorado. catch a pair and you have sushi-ceviche-broiled fillet for a few days. but you might not want to spend all your vacation in a 30' boat heading out that far. If you are anchoring every night it is more fun to try the local BBQ shack or cafe.

Le Marin has good groceries available from Grande Marche - they will deliver to your boat too. you can get all the French wine, French cheese, pork chops, and sausage you want. Avoid the beef (not local). Check the fruit carefully before buying. if your boat doesn't have much freezer storage or cooking facilities you can live on fruit and beer with dinners ashore at night.

enjoy.

Thanks for the helpful info and comments.

Is there a way to check for parasites when you catch a fish or buy at a dock when the fishing boats come in, in these waters? We plan on living on sushi, sashimi, fresh fruit and veg.

Yes. It is a guy's trip so we will allow the conditions and forecasted conditions determine where we go, inside or outside, etc. We can do a lot of miles in a day if we want.

A Pogo 30 is designed to cross oceans. The particular boat we chartered crosses the Atlantic twice a year (based in the Med in summer and Caribbean in winter), so it is well equipped to go off shore if we want(old man and the sea?).

The exact boat we chartered is shown at the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyGhr49xGhE

The weak point of the Pogo 30 is it can be very uncomfortable close hauled in any kind of chop because it is a light, flat bottomed boat, that planes with about 14 knots of wind not too far off the beam. Other than closed hauled a Pogo 30 is very fast(for 30ft), and stable at other points of sail.

As you mentioned where we are going is an ideal place to sail a Pogo 30 because all of the passages will likely be a beam reach.

I am thinking of buying a Pogo or JPK or similar type design boat. I am starting at the smaller end (30Ft), to see if it is comfortable enough for my use(1-2 weeks trips at a go without the wife or kids). I am going to go as small as I can to keep it KISS. After the Pogo 30, next up in size is a Pogo 36 or JPK 38 FC.

[Symphony]

The pogo is a great boat with oceangoing capabilities. I don’t doubt it can cross the Atlantic easily, but in a rather uncomfortable way. :-)

When I was in my 20s I raced International 14 dinghies and owned a Santa Cruz 27ULDB. The Santa Cruz could go anywhere, racing to Hawaii even, but I wouldn’t want to do that for a pleasure cruise in now! :-)

Fish. Hmmm

[Symphony]

Sorry to say I am not an expert on fish parasites. I’ve only bought lobster from local fishermen to boil of course.

The fish we have caught off shore is given a cursory inspection. If they look healthy without Ick or parasites attached, and when we gut them no worms pour out, we eat the fillet after eyeballing it.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Symphony

The pogo is a great boat with oceangoing capabilities. I don’t doubt it can cross the Atlantic easily, but in a rather uncomfortable way. :-)

When I was in my 20s I raced International 14 dinghies and owned a Santa Cruz 27ULDB. The Santa Cruz could go anywhere, racing to Hawaii even, but I wouldn’t want to do that for a pleasure cruise in now! :-)

Fish. Hmmm

Yes. A Pogo 30 is sort of a large dinghy you can sleep on but not as tippy. We will see. A 30 may be too uncomfortable. But I only plan to sail double handed on similar trips as described in the thread. If a 30 is too uncomfortable I can move up to Pogo 36 or JPK 38. The Pogos have so much beam they are more like a boat 5 feet longer in terms of roominess.

I have causally been around sail boats on and off all my life but as far as seamanship goes I am a newbie, so I consider getting started on a Pogo 30 for a week the way to go. My cousin that is joining me is very experienced sailor. He is going to allow me to act as skipper and intervene only if I am going to risk damaging the boat or one of us. Kinda like having a bike with training wheels when you are 5 years old.

[okapi3]

Hello Augi,

We are currently at the marina in Le Marin. We have been cruising the windward and southern leeward islands since we bought our boat (An Amel 53 ketch) in Grenada in October and believe I can give you some hopefully useful advice.

First, in Le Marin, stock up on good french bread and incredibly cheap decent quality french wine and then leave. Spend as little time here as possible. The people are very nice but it is a zoo here and kind of a european wanabee culture rather than a real caribbean experience. For that go to the english speaking islands.

Although my wife and I are francophiles and I speak fluent french I have not found the french islands nearly as enjoyable as the english ones (I love Reggae. Zouk not so much)--the Antilles are actually part of france and it feels like it. Definitely avoid Les Saintes--crowded with tourists, and very little authentic left.

Dominica has been our favorite island so far. You could easily spend half your week there. People super nice and helpful--will strike up a conversation with you in a shop. The PAYS guys are amazing--helpful, professional--safest place in the caribbean possibly. Take a tour and stay on a mooring ball to support their economy, in recovery after being devastated by Maria in 2017. Recovering amazingly well so don't hesitate to go there.

to the south, most cruisers, us included, try to avoid stopping at either St. Lucia or St. Vincent, other than to sleep. Crime is a problem on both islands and the boat boys of St. Lucia are particularly pushy and aggressive (as opposed to polite and helpful ones in Dominica and the Grenadines). If you do need to sleep on your way south, anchor between Petite Piton and Gros Piton on the southern lee coast of St. Lucia and don't go to shore. Spending a night next to these magnificent peaks is almost worth paying off the boat boys. No need to go ashore (or clear in), just pick up early and move on to Bequia, our second favorite island. It's a nice mix of real caribbean, with astrong seafaring history, and amenities for cruisiers. Take a taxi to the Turtle Sanctuary and talke to/ support Mr. King who is 80 and has been singlehandedly saving the hawksbill turtles for 20 years. Plus the baby turtles are incredibly cute...

You mentioned Mustique. A bit of an odd duck but if you don't mind paying $80 for a mooring ball sort of interesting. Private island for the rich but they treat visitors well. Basil's Bar is superb. Don't be afraid to walk over the island to the windward side--nobody made us feel like we were trespassing.

Regarding the sailing. You boat is much more tender and light than ours so please give the trade winds, especially in the passages between islands a huge amt of respect. Reef deep BEFORE you leave the lee of any island and enter a passage. winds of 25-30 sustained are not uncommon with waves 8-10 ft.

Same for squalls. Keep your eyes open for dark clouds. If they appear to be heading your way, reef early and reef deep. Don't be macho. They WILL smack you.

Also, Dominica has tall mountains with valleys between. The wind gets funnelled through these valleys and will suddenly go from 8-10 kt (wind blocked by land) to 35 as you pass. Only lasts a brief time but at least one catamaran was capsized by the "Dominica Blast"(according to Chris Doyle who you will be reading).

Prepare for upwind sailing--both north and south. The trades blow from the east but can be due east or slightly north or south of east, and this subtle difference will determine whether you are close-hauled and beating and pinching or comfortably reaching. so the forecast may influence which direction you go.

Anyway, good luck. BTW our sons were visiting us over christmas/ new years and a Pogo (40?) was anchored next to us at Portsmouth, Dominica. My sons were drooling over how cool the Pogo looked and googled it and found out how fast it can go--real fast. Be safe.

Fair winds,

[Augi]

Originally Posted by okapi3

Hello Augi,

We are currently at the marina in Le Marin. We have been cruising the windward and southern leeward islands since we bought our boat (An Amel 53 ketch) in Grenada in October and believe I can give you some hopefully useful advice.

First, in Le Marin, stock up on good french bread and incredibly cheap decent quality french wine and then leave. Spend as little time here as possible. The people are very nice but it is a zoo here and kind of a european wanabee culture rather than a real caribbean experience. For that go to the english speaking islands.

Although my wife and I are francophiles and I speak fluent french I have not found the french islands nearly as enjoyable as the english ones (I love Reggae. Zouk not so much)--the Antilles are actually part of france and it feels like it. Definitely avoid Les Saintes--crowded with tourists, and very little authentic left.

Dominica has been our favorite island so far. You could easily spend half your week there. People super nice and helpful--will strike up a conversation with you in a shop. The PAYS guys are amazing--helpful, professional--safest place in the caribbean possibly. Take a tour and stay on a mooring ball to support their economy, in recovery after being devastated by Maria in 2017. Recovering amazingly well so don't hesitate to go there.

to the south, most cruisers, us included, try to avoid stopping at either St. Lucia or St. Vincent, other than to sleep. Crime is a problem on both islands and the boat boys of St. Lucia are particularly pushy and aggressive (as opposed to polite and helpful ones in Dominica and the Grenadines). If you do need to sleep on your way south, anchor between Petite Piton and Gros Piton on the southern lee coast of St. Lucia and don't go to shore. Spending a night next to these magnificent peaks is almost worth paying off the boat boys. No need to go ashore (or clear in), just pick up early and move on to Bequia, our second favorite island. It's a nice mix of real caribbean, with astrong seafaring history, and amenities for cruisiers. Take a taxi to the Turtle Sanctuary and talke to/ support Mr. King who is 80 and has been singlehandedly saving the hawksbill turtles for 20 years. Plus the baby turtles are incredibly cute...

You mentioned Mustique. A bit of an odd duck but if you don't mind paying $80 for a mooring ball sort of interesting. Private island for the rich but they treat visitors well. Basil's Bar is superb. Don't be afraid to walk over the island to the windward side--nobody made us feel like we were trespassing.

Regarding the sailing. You boat is much more tender and light than ours so please give the trade winds, especially in the passages between islands a huge amt of respect. Reef deep BEFORE you leave the lee of any island and enter a passage. winds of 25-30 sustained are not uncommon with waves 8-10 ft.

Same for squalls. Keep your eyes open for dark clouds. If they appear to be heading your way, reef early and reef deep. Don't be macho. They WILL smack you.

Also, Dominica has tall mountains with valleys between. The wind gets funnelled through these valleys and will suddenly go from 8-10 kt (wind blocked by land) to 35 as you pass. Only lasts a brief time but at least one catamaran was capsized by the "Dominica Blast"(according to Chris Doyle who you will be reading).

Prepare for upwind sailing--both north and south. The trades blow from the east but can be due east or slightly north or south of east, and this subtle difference will determine whether you are close-hauled and beating and pinching or comfortably reaching. so the forecast may influence which direction you go.

Anyway, good luck. BTW our sons were visiting us over christmas/ new years and a Pogo (40?) was anchored next to us at Portsmouth, Dominica. My sons were drooling over how cool the Pogo looked and googled it and found out how fast it can go--real fast. Be safe.

Fair winds,

What a ball! An Amel 53!

Thanks so much for the well informed, very current info and comments.

#1 is safety. We have nothing to prove. We only want to have as much safe, fun as possible. I have sailed some in the Caribbean as crew and have experienced what it is like when a squall blows through with 30-40 knot winds. I take safety very seriously and will make sure we stay within our capabilities with one very experienced crew member, and one newbie.

A Pogo 30 is a good little boat. If we are prudent and treat her well she will take care of us. Since we are only two, I will require life vests always and be hooked to a jack line in any wind or sea that amounts to anything when on deck or in the cockpit. My biggest safety concern is if one person goes over board and is knocked out. Getting him back in the boat, in 25 knot winds, with 10 ft seas which is not unusual between the islands would not be easy.

Plus if that were to happen a couple of other things likely went wrong that the guy still on the boat would be dealing with. We will practice for that the first day, have a plan and be prepared. But the key is always be hooked to the jack line when on deck and not have to execute that maneuver in any kind of wind or sea. The first day we will practice MOB and heaving to, to get used to those maneuvers among others on what is a new boat to both.

I think the furthest we potentially will go South is Bequia(if we go South), because every one seems to rave about it.

Did you have the same negative vibe, experiences you referred to when / if you stopped off on the Windward side of Martinique? I am with you. If we wanted that sort of difficult French experience we would go to Paris! I have been(on non sailing holidays), to Guadeloupe (which I found easy going), and St Barts (which was NYC south and Paris south rolled into one). I have lived in NYC, lived in the Cote d'Azur, and visited Paris many times. So I know what you are talking about. No posers, please. Or worse is encountering a pissy, French attitude (for example because my French is far from perfect). In that case I come with, "Sans les États-Unis, nous parlerions allemand maintenant".

If conditions at all permit we will probably go north to Dominica and we can go to Guadeloupe if the conditions look like they will be right going and returning.

Best of luck(and fun), on your family adventure!

[okapi3]

I just want to clarify that the French people here on Martinique are great. Don't misunderstand me. there are no "pissy" frenchmen or women here. They are consistently friendly and extremely polite. In fact that is perhaps why Americans think they are aloof--because Americans don't understand the etiquette of being polite. this includes saying bonjour or bonsoir to just about everyone, ALWAYS saying bonjour madame or bonjour monsieur when you enter any store or before you ask someone something, and saying au revoir madame or monsieur when you leave a store even if you didn't buy anything. I think it is we who piss them off by not being polite.

Martinique is a great island, with lots to see and do and many cool coves to anchor in (our favorite is Anse Noir about a 4 hour sail north of Le Marin, small, quiet with no light pollution and you are almost guaranteed to see turtles if you snorkel there.

It is just the Marina du Marin which is so tiring--many hundreds of yachts, mega yachts, giant charter catamarans, businesses, busy busy (but friendly!), noisy, bright and hot. But once you drop the hook in a cool peaceful anchorage, even on Martinique it is an entirely different experience.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by okapi3

I just want to clarify that the French people here on Martinique are great. Don't misunderstand me. there are no "pissy" frenchmen or women here. They are consistently friendly and extremely polite. In fact that is perhaps why Americans think they are aloof--because Americans don't understand the etiquette of being polite. this includes saying bonjour or bonsoir to just about everyone, ALWAYS saying bonjour madame or bonjour monsieur when you enter any store or before you ask someone something, and saying au revoir madame or monsieur when you leave a store even if you didn't buy anything. I think it is we who piss them off by not being polite.

Martinique is a great island, with lots to see and do and many cool coves to anchor in (our favorite is Anse Noir about a 4 hour sail north of Le Marin, small, quiet with no light pollution and you are almost guaranteed to see turtles if you snorkel there.

It is just the Marina du Marin which is so tiring--many hundreds of yachts, mega yachts, giant charter catamarans, businesses, busy busy (but friendly!), noisy, bright and hot. But once you drop the hook in a cool peaceful anchorage, even on Martinique it is an entirely different experience.

Thanks for clarifying. I understand the distinction you are making. Totally agree about the importance of being "polite" based on the culture and the way of life where you happen to be overseas, not the American version. I spent 1/2 of my adult life overseas.

[Cheechako]

The only thing I can say about fish parasites is if you fillet the fish, leave it a bit, if any worms are present they will usually start coming out within an hour or so. But, I really never saw any in pelagic fish I caught. Bottom fish or reef fish may be another thing.
I found much of the well traveled Caribe to be void of a lot of fish though.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

The only thing I can say about fish parasites is if you fillet the fish, leave it a bit, if any worms are present they will usually start coming out within an hour or so. But, I really never saw any in pelagic fish I caught. Bottom fish or reef fish may be another thing.
I found much of the well traveled Caribe to be void of a lot of fish though.

Thanks for the info.

What is the worst thing that can happen if you eat fish with parasites?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Augi

Thanks for the info.

What is the worst thing that can happen if you eat fish with parasites?

I dont know.... more protein? I would worry more about ciguatera

[Eleuthera 2014]

Siguatera... avoid all reef fish unless sold to you by a professional fisherman. All barracudas should be avoided.

Open water tuna and mahimahi are good.

Enjoy. A Pogo is a fine piece of kit but reserve some time with your dentist post charter to replace your lost teeth fillings....

[GordMay]

Parasites do not present a serious health concern in thoroughly cooked or properly frozen fish.
Adequate freezing (to an internal temperature of -4°F for at least 7 days, or blast/flash frozen to -35°F for 15 hours),
or cooking (to an internal temperature of at least 145°F for 15 seconds) fish will kill any parasites that may be present.


Unfortunately, the ideal cooked temperature for most fish is around 130 degrees, but some dense-fleshed fish, including tuna and salmon, are better at 120 degrees. Also, I wonder how many cruisers have a flash freezer, or can even get their box down to -4°F (-20°C)?


“Candling” detects surface parasites. Unfortunately, you cannot always see parasites embedded deep in thick fillets or in dark tissue. Note: Most parasites are very small.
Candling is also useful for revealing pinbones in fillets that are intended to be boneless.