Beneteau 42/44CC vs 473/423

[drewm3i]

Hello Cruisers Forum!

Here is some background for this post:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2491237#post2491237

I will copy relevant parts here:

My name is Drew and I am from South Florida. As the title suggests, my fiance and I are looking for our first sailboat to live-aboard and cruise when we have free time. We have been inspired by a number of sailing blogs like Delos and La Vagabonde and have decided to take the plunge.

We are powerboaters and have owned a number of boats, including a 21' Chaparral bowrider, a 24' Chaparral cuddy cabin, and now a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer with twins that we are in the process of rebuilding due to partially rotted stringers.

As a young couple with no real financial responsibilities, zero debt, etc. we are pondering the possibility of buying a sailboat as our floating home with a mortgage that we would easily be able to pay off within 5-10 years by working full time (for now).

That said, we still want to sail and will take frequent weekend and short trips to the Keys and Tortugas out of Miami. We would also like to use our vacation time to cruise the Bahamas, especially Andros, the Exumas, and the Abacos as we are divers/free divers and love to observe the immense beauty of coral reefs. Thus, we want a seaworthy boat, not simply a floating home. Eventually we will want to cruise the Caribbean and maybe even head to the South Pacific via the tradewind route once we have years of experience.

So far we have looked at some new a Hunter 410 DS, a Hunter 420 CC, a Beneteau 411, and a Beneteau 423. We also looked at some new Jeanneaus and were unimpressed by the paneling and flimsy build. The older boats seem to be much higher quality. Of these boats, the 423 seems perfect. I understand this is one of Beneteau's best designs ever? My research says she sails quickly and is relatively seaworthy for a production boat. We loved the layout and spaciousness, combined with the streamlined design as opposed to the Hunters which felt very cheap and more like floating palaces. Any comments on these boat choices? We also love the Beneteau 44 CC with its tub, huge aft cabin, bulkhead wheel, hard dodger, and secure center cockpit. We have about 150k to spend over 10 years. We have paid cash for all of our other boats, but this is a substantial purchase and we are looking at it like a condo purchase, rather than a boat.

Personally, I don't mind a higher quality used boat, but financing seems to be an issue for boats older than 1997. I also prefer the newer boats due to no wood used for the stringers. I know the grids are possibly not as strong, but as someone who is currently rebuilding a boat, I don't want another huge project. I am very handy and can fix almost anything, but I want something new and without the possibility of rotted decks, stringers, etc. So years I am looking at are roughly '97-'07.

At this point in my search (about 6 months), I am most interested in the Beneteau 42/44 CC and 423/473. Of all the "awb" production boats, I feel Beneteau makes the best boat and is also the easiest to find. The 42 and 44 cc we have not seen in person, but would like to (we are currently in the wpb area of FL). The center cockpit with bulkhead wheel, keel stepped mast, and fewer windows scream seaworthy to me. The aft deck would also be a nice spot for dive gear, workouts, etc.

The 473 also seems like a great boat. First, it must be FAST with 44' of waterline. It is also spacious and we'd get an extra cabin (3), yet keep the master stateroom and sea galley. This boat has the greatest tankage of all four which is a plus. It is the newest, fastest, biggest, but most expensive.

Ideally, I'd want a cutter rig to have both a 90% jib and 140% Genoa. Cats seem too expensive though the admiral would like one. I really want a fast, modern monohull with spade rudder and a fin keel. I do not want a full keeled slug.

Any input is much appreciated! We are in the WPB area and new to sailing. These boats seem to be the best for our needs but additional suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks,
Drew

[drewm3i]

No input? Not set on these boats for sure, just seem to fit my criteria of

-master cabin with on suite/separate shower
-large sea galley
-easy to sail
-relatively seaworthy
-new, modern, clean
-newer than 1997 for financing and under 175k.

[daletournier]

I have a Catalina 470. I was looking at many boats including the ones you mentioned and was willing to fly pretty well anywhere to purchase. Although I would definitely cruise on the likes of a Beneteau I choose the catalina 470 because I believe it to be more robust than the builds mentioned. Heavier layup, no liner, massive glass grid system glassed into the hull, glassed in bulkheads, collision watertight bulkhead, lead keel not cast iron, large bilge, independent steering systems, well designed spade rudder, substantial rigging etc. I'm happy with my choice. I would have purchased a cat if I could have found one for the same money that offered as much, I couldn't.

They are priced abit higher than you want to spend but I purchased mine for less than the figure you have stated. Worth a look.

[IntoMyHealth]

Hi Drew,

All you say about the the B473 is true. Fast, comfortable, and easy to sail. It maneuvers quite well in tight spaces, as well. We chose it over the 423 only for its larger owner stateroom and the awesome cockpit with twin helm. But breaking the 42’ barrier adds quite a bit of marina/yard expense, at least her in CT. The xx3 series Beneteau is the last of the “traditional” sailboats from the company before the more “modern look”. So they present as an older boat but perform more like today’s fast boats. We love ours. Enjoy the search!

[mogulskibum]

If you can keep the loan amount under 100 check out Lightstream.com (part of SunTrust Bank). They'll finance any age boat, and unlike some companies, the interest rate / length of term allowed doesn't change based on how old the boat is.

That might open up your search some.

[Howler]

We recently chose the 411. It's not built for serious ocean passage. Disregard the marketing literature to the contrary but the list is long as to why not... build, displacement, keel, fuel & water capacity, etc.

But it met many of our needs for a great live aboard coastal cruiser with similar requirements to yours. I agree with your observation about Jeanneau and while we love our 1990s era Hunter, I share your views on the new ones. With Beneteau, you get a lot of boat for the price, lenders like them because they have good resale value, and you're buying from a world-leading manufacturer that has survived when others haven't. It's very easy to sail and it's fast. Some of the speed comes from the relatively low displacement. Beneteau dropped a few thousand pounds from the 41. This was supposedly achieved with no structural compromise based on advanced manufacturing techniques, and the boat handles nicely, in part due to the hard chine running all the way abaft. And you can't argue with a little French styling to go with it all. The one situation which our test sail showed suboptimal was messy chop (shallow east end of Lake Erie with backwash from the breakwater). She was thrown around quite a bit, and that surprised us for a boat that size. But in steady waves, she floats right over them.

This is a very subjective topic. Whatever you choose, make sure to try it out on the water, and really consider how you'll use it. Cruise the world or cocktails at the dock? Anchoring or docking? Bluewater or coastal?

[drewm3i]

Originally Posted by Howler

We recently chose the 411. It's not built for serious ocean passage. Disregard the marketing literature to the contrary but the list is long as to why not..

. I agree with your observation about Jeanneau and while we love our 1990s era Hunter, I share your views on the new ones. With Beneteau, you get a lot of boat for the price, lenders like them because they have good resale value, and you're buying from a world-leading manufacturer that has survived when others haven't. It's very easy to sail and it's fast.

This is a very subjective topic. Whatever you choose, make sure to try it out on the water, and really consider how you'll use it. Cruise the world or cocktails at the dock? Anchoring or docking? Bluewater or coastal?

The 411 is a little small. We looked at one and my head touched the ceiling when walking around. I also do not like pullman berths because of the climbing over your partner situation.

The only Hunter I like is the 40.5, but all those plexiglass windows look like trouble to me. I know boats and I know nothing ever works 100% right, including leaky windows.

Beneteau seems like the Sea Ray of sailboats which isn't a bad thing. People sail them all over the world and they seem to hold up for the most part.

We really will do a lot of everything with this boat...
We will be living aboard and cruising the Bahamas for the time being. After 5-7 years I'd like to be able to take her around the world via the tradewinds. Whatever boat we will have will have a watermaker, generator, backup sails, assymetrical, etc.

Thanks for your input.

[drewm3i]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I have a Catalina 470. I was looking at many boats including the ones you

I saw one of those online and it looked very nice to me. I like that the liner is glassed vs. glued with plexus. I will keep an eye out and see if I can find one to look at. I have no problem with a Catalina.

[drewm3i]

Originally Posted by IntoMyHealth

Hi Drew,

All you say about the the B473 is true. Fast, comfortable, and easy to sail. It maneuvers quite well in tight spaces, as well. We chose it over the 423 only for its larger owner stateroom and the awesome cockpit with twin helm. But breaking the 42’ barrier adds quite a bit of marina/yard expense, at least her in CT. The xx3 series Beneteau is the last of the “traditional” sailboats from the company before the more “modern look”. So they present as an older boat but perform more like today’s fast boats. We love ours. Enjoy the search!

I like both the 423 and the 473. How is the galley and master shower compared to the 423? A lot bigger I would imagine? I've looked at a 423 in person and was impressed. It was the first boat I would own in our search.

[drewm3i]

Originally Posted by mogulskibum

If you can keep the loan amount under 100 check out Lightstream.com (part of SunTrust Bank). They'll finance any age boat, and unlike some companies, the interest rate / length of term allowed doesn't change based on how old the boat is.

That might open up your search some.

Thank you for the advice. Know of any older boats with a swim platform or at least swim steps? Even in an older boat, I'd want a fin keel and skeg/spade rudder for performance reasons and the boat still needs to be comfortable.

As a side note I also really like the Moody CC boats. They seem quick enough, but also have an encapsulated keel and skeg hung rudder.

[B_Hunter45]

I went through the same process although my needs are a little different, we spend the summer on the boat but we have a teenager child with us.
At the end I decide to go for the Hunter 45 DS, my reasons were the following:

1. This is the easiest boat to single hand.
2. Very roomy
3. Very solid construction, for example Hunter used bolts instead of screws in many places.
4. VERY stable, not fast, and feels very safe.

You should by one from Europe, they sell in Euros which gives you a 25% discount due to the currency change in the last two years (the market will correct itself soon), these boats were built for 110V systems and converted to 220V when sold in Europe. Converting back is a piece of cake, did it in one day and the cost was $300.

This is not the same for Beneteau,the 220V were built in France with a 220V wiring, this will be very costly to convert.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by drewm3i

I saw one of those online and it looked very nice to me. I like that the liner is glassed vs. glued with plexus. I will keep an eye out and see if I can find one to look at. I have no problem with a Catalina.

Doesn't actually have a liner. It has a massive fiberglass grid system (think frame) glassed in. No potential liner separation from hull in hard grounding. The lead keel was a big plus for me.

[Howler]

If you want to sail the world, consider a Hallberg-Rassy. Our second choice because they’re much more expensive and there are few recent used ones, but that’s because they’re built to last forever!

[hamburking]

Kingston Yachts for Sale, New & Used Boat Sales, Powerboats & Sailboats - Kingston Yacht Sales

[sasirles]

We own a 423 and used many of the same criteria as you have expressed. The 423 comes in a two cabin and a three cabin layout. In our opinion, the two cabin layout is superior because the three cabin layout destroys the excellent galley found in the two cabin layout and spreads it out along the starboard side of the saloon.

Good luck on your boat search.