New to steel.

[Lucas1983]

Hello there I'm looking at a beautiful steel boat which is what I would prefer just for the one in 10,000 chance you hit a half shnkbmkoring block or a sea container etc but I don't know much about how the corrosion all works and the competent upkeep and or what metals react with the steel and how,

I found found out last week that while a stainless steel mast and or boom may sound nice as normal person might assume they won't corrode and it would be no problems but apparently there is a pretty significant reaction between different metals not to mention that having your standing rigging being so much heavier being stainless your boat might not right itself very well even if you have twice the amount of wait due to the steel hole and ballast, so I hear anyway.
I like the look and have looked at many Bruce Robertson's but now have an offer on a beautiful 1991 Kurt Reinke that's looks like new and appears to have everything inside of a new also making it feel too good to be true.
And in the description it says the hall was quarter inch plate and the deck was 3/4 in mild steel but that has to be a typo because if your deck was thicker than your hall what you never should be the boat would weigh 10000 pounds more and probably sails like s***, but if anybody knows anything about these boats please do fill me in and anything or good tips when it comes to taking care of corrosion issues.

Thanks all

[Andreas W]

I used to have until recently a Dudley Dix 43 in steel. I bought the plans and the hull was built in South Africa. The steel thickness varied between 6mm around the keel section to 3 - 4 mm on the sides and the deck.
The Dix 43 came in 3 versions, aft cockpit, centre cockpit, and pilothouse . Mine was a centre cockpit and I chose for a cutter rig.

If you pay attention to a good paint system, proper earthing and bonding of your electrical plant, proper calculation and placement of sacrificial anodes, a steel boat can give you decades of sailing pleasure without corrosion problems.

Important is the inside of the hull, because corrosion can progress behind insulation material without being noticed at first. I used a ceramic based, sprayed on, insulation layer. With that you have enough ventilation to prevent accumulation of condensed water.

I like the keel being an integral part of the hull, instead of being bolted on. For me there is no better cruising boat material than steel. But the problem is to find a good boatbuilder nowadays. Few places left which are good AND affordable.

[Lucas1983]

Good advice thank you

[SV DINGO]

Not many replies , you are trying to join a very elite club here , the Steel boat club.

Most of the plastic owners look down on steel as they feel it is heavy and constantly rusty .

I am with your mindset , i love my 40' Van De Stadt Caribbean in steel but i have to say that yes i have a spare paint pot for every part of my boat on board and i do use up a considerable amount of paintbrushes. If you stay on top of the paint and use the best possible paint you can afford i feel it is a doable situation and for me it is worth my peace of mind in regards to me banging into things.
In regards to Reinke , i looked at buying the Alu version but unfortunately i missed out on a couple that were in my price range and the others well they were outside my budget. Love the design and the fit out of most of them.
Friend of mine has the Reinke 15 in Alu and it is a wonderful boat. In regards to the steel , check out were the hull was built as some not all steel is of equal standard and the initial coatings are a very important aspect of the life expectancy.

Steel is maintenance yes but if i do hit something i can either stick weld it to get me to the nearest port and i can find a stickwelder and some mild steel in nearly every village to get me to a proper repair port.

Hope it will work out for you.

[Lucas1983]

Thanks for the reply.
When it comes to where hull the was welded, once you find out where would you find out the quality off steel? Just by calling up the place that did the work if they are still around?
That's another thing I need to learn more about is welding on a steel boat and how and what you need to do first to avoid any costly mistakes. My father was a pro welder a spent 5 years welding up a massive commercial steel fishing boat but unfortunately he was a workaholic too and didn't teach me quite enough about stick welding,picking up the stubs from 5000 lb of Rod doesn't exactly teach you much when you're a kid.

[SV DINGO]

The problem with many steel yachts is that they are in fact homebuilt and that makes it hard to find out many facts.
Reinke's in particular are almost always backyard builts but you can be lucky that the hull was built by a commercial company , if you can find out whether that is the case or not you can draw some conclusions.

i know how difficult it was for me so all i can tell you is , see whether any of your friends have any welding experience , take your friend with you and take your time.
Inspect the yacht you feel is a likely yes for hours , crawl over her , lift everything that you can inside , get a little inspection camera , look into holes , behind things , every centimeter of the bilges. Look at welds , sometimes welds are not pretty but if the penetration of the weld is good , live with the look or get yourself a grinder and start working once you bought her. If an agent is pushing you , forget that boat right away , they push for a reason. Stick welding is in my view more complicated as Arc but steel is forgiving. You can always grind and start again. If i ever have a hole at sea or in a far away place i dont care if my weld is not pretty as long as it is nearly water tight and gets me to a better place to fix it more professionally. As i said i like steel but it is not for everyone i understand that but we all have our own ideas.

[Michael Cobbe]

Have an ultrasound test which tests the thickness of the metal if it is thinner than it should be then there is rust. The only to fix it and stop it the coming back is to sandblast it and paint it with Zinc rich epoxy.

[Lucas1983]

I read over the inspection report that was done in 2014 and as the inspector states and you can tell from the work everything is an above average condition and according to you inspection the boat was built the same way when it came to the quality of the welds, the one thing I’m wondering about on this model which is a Hydra 50 twin screw semi cutter which even you can see on the drawings shows that they normally have 2x50 hp engines but one was removed and it now has one Mercedes OM-615 65 hp engine, at least that’s what the inspection says, the person that is selling the boat for the guy who inherited is telling people inquiring about it that it has 100 horse engine but again according to the inspection and the model number it’s a 50 to 65 horse rebuilt in 2002 , I don’t know why one engine was removed or maybe was only designed to have one when he built it and alter the plans so I don’t now now if this vessel is under powered because if you use the formula I have read about out there where it is 1 hp per 500 pounds of weight that would put this vessel and it’s engine right at the limit for his 30,000 pound displacement, I don’t know if this 16” high performance feathered prop it has can increase the drive of the vessel somehow or what exactly the scoop is but I can’t get any reliable information as the brother that inherited does not know anything about boats and is totally on interested and you just don’t know what you’re getting with the fellow he has selling it for him, guess I will just be finding out for myself and I don’t think there’s an engine in our metre either has that is not listed on the listing or stated anywhere which I think is kind of suspicious for one and silly and irresponsible of the owner do not have a one of that because everybody wants to know the hours before they buy a boat, I don’t know What a good engine inspector will be able to tell me about it as for what kind of condition it is in but in the listing it is stated it was rebuilt in 2002 but again the person selling it is throwing a number out there saying it has about 100 hours which I would believe because the boat does is easy to tail has not used and was just barely finished before the builder passed away.
Would like to hear any opinions on the power needed for a vessel of this displacement and link with a beam of 12 feet or what you think or recommend at all.

[markcouz]

Originally Posted by Lucas1983

Hello there I'm looking at a beautiful steel boat which is what I would prefer just for the one in 10,000 chance you hit a half shnkbmkoring block or a sea container etc

When I started my search I was leaning towards steel for the same reason as you. I found a beautiful Bruce Roberts 45 steel (late 80's) in Richards Bay that appeared meticulously maintained (I believe 6mm below the waterline, 4mm topsides and 3mm deck) - I made an offer subject to MY approval of hull survey results for which it needed to be hauled out (the internal inspection all seemed good).


On hauling out we found sporadic patches of growth on an otherwise clean hull, we scrapped the paint in a couple of these areas and there was definite bubble corrosion beneath (several football sized areas).



On more detailed inspection it turned out that all these areas of corrosion were distributed behind the beautifully fitted cabinetry, and impossible to inspect/maintain/repair without stripping this out - having done that I had severe doubts about refitting to the same high standard.


The corrosion had come about because the high level of maintenance that the rest of the boat has benefited from was not possible in these areas, corrosion had started inside the hull and worked it way through the 6mm plate to where it was now clearly visible from outside requiring that these areas be replated.


If they had offered me the boat for free I would have considered it, because I might have been able to end up with the boat that I really liked at a price that I was prepared to pay - I walked away and found a Bruce Roberts 45 GRP that I am happy with.


If you are considering a steel boat I highly suggest that you get hold of the book [Metal Boat Maintenance - Scott Fratcher] and read through it (I did so in a weekend) It will give you a very good idea what to expect and what will be required on a 30 year old steel boat.

[hpeer]

There is a lot of good info above. We have 2 steel boats, both bulls professionally built with very good owner fit out.

A few points.

While you may have a good survey you don’t know the surveyor or his work. I would use it as historical data but discount his assessment. There are few really good steel Surveyors. Listen more to his comments on components that are common to all sailboats.

I don’t think much of ultrasonic surveys. Rust forms in small isolated SPOTS. Generalized surveys have little chance of finding these spots. If you have a questionable spot then use a ultrasonic meter to verify the remaining steel. Buy a model that doesn’t both single and double echo testing, then you can test through paint. About $400.

Probably the biggest issue is accessibility to the interior hull below the waterline. If you can’t get to the hull without cutting out furniture then walk away, no matter how good. Accessibility is essential.

In my experience these are common spots for rust:
Chain locker
Lazarette
Under any sink
Around through hulls
Basically anyplace that is constantly exposed to wet, even very small quantities of wet.

A good survey requires: a great flash light, hammer, screwdriver with a solid shank you can pound on (or a dulled chisel), and a very bad attitude. Be wary of any new paint, it may be covering up something ugly. It is mandatory that YOU do the hull survey ON THE HARD. Take your time. Be through. Any spot you can not get to has not been touched since forever.

Eventually you WILL need to make some repairs. That’s OK as long as you can get to the interior with reasonable ease. The easiest part of any repair is the welding. Tear out, cleaning, painting, restoration is the tough part. Welding adequately is fairly easy and cheap. I carry a small inverted stick welder, it’s about 18”x8x8 plus leads, under $200 new, it will do up to 1/4”. My limitation is that my Honda 2000 will kick off very quickly, so my effective duty cycle is very low. It’s pretty good on shore power.

All the above said I really like steel. I have had a couple of incidents where steel save my butt. I’ve seen an experienced sailor damn near like his keel in a very good glass boat. So in my experience steels advantages are real. For a decent boat the maintenance differences are not so great compared to glass. If cosmetics are important to you then go glass. If you are not very interested in cosmetics, or racing then steel is a good option. Because so many frown upon steel, especially in the US, it is generally a bargain. PROVIDED it is in decent shape when purchased. Yet it happens all the time that folks fall for a cheap steel boat that has not been well cared for and then find they are in way over their head. Even if the repairs are doable they get intimidated. Brining a steel boat back after a certain point is intimidating.

[yr2030]

I have had at least four steel boats - the last one a Sutton schooner, which didn't sail very well. It was a dock queen (condo boat). The problems we had were rust - all over, covered by gallons of paint. One of the others had paint that wasn't made for boats - I guess they went to Home Depot; another one didn't have enough zincs; another one was very old and it showed. I went with aluminum on my last sailboat and although it was easier to maintain (no rust) it did present electrolysis agenda. I really wanted a French built alum sailing cat, but it had even more problems. People that build these in their backyards just don't do it right. Today I would only buy a new boat.

[Lucas1983]

Originally Posted by yr2030

I have had at least four steel boats - the last one a Sutton schooner, which didn't sail very well. It was a dock queen (condo boat). The problems we had were rust - all over, covered by gallons of paint. One of the others had paint that wasn't made for boats - I guess they went to Home Depot; another one didn't have enough zincs; another one was very old and it showed. I went with aluminum on my last sailboat and although it was easier to maintain (no rust) it did present electrolysis agenda. I really wanted a French built alum sailing cat, but it had even more problems. People that build these in their backyards just don't do it right. Today I would only buy a new boat.

I seem to get conflicting answers that controversy about aluminum being pretty much hassle free in the only way to go oh, I'm interested to hear what you discovered. How big was this boat for you to call in a condo boat or do you just mean the layout is Tonye staterooms sort of like what I'm after except mine is pretty small unless I was to sacrifice the crash is owns on the bow and Stern and make those part of the rooms which isn't worth it since they're sealed up pretty good in the boat shouldn't sink very easy god forbid a missile hits me.

[Lucas1983]

Originally Posted by markcouz

When I started my search I was leaning towards steel for the same reason as you. I found a beautiful Bruce Roberts 45 steel (late 80's) in Richards Bay that appeared meticulously maintained (I believe 6mm below the waterline, 4mm topsides and 3mm deck) - I made an offer subject to MY approval of hull survey results for which it needed to be hauled out (the internal inspection all seemed good).


On hauling out we found sporadic patches of growth on an otherwise clean hull, we scrapped the paint in a couple of these areas and there was definite bubble corrosion beneath (several football sized areas).



On more detailed inspection it turned out that all these areas of corrosion were distributed behind the beautifully fitted cabinetry, and impossible to inspect/maintain/repair without stripping this out - having done that I had severe doubts about refitting to the same high standard.


The corrosion had come about because the high level of maintenance that the rest of the boat has benefited from was not possible in these areas, corrosion had started inside the hull and worked it way through the 6mm plate to where it was now clearly visible from outside requiring that these areas be replated.


If they had offered me the boat for free I would have considered it, because I might have been able to end up with the boat that I really liked at a price that I was prepared to pay - I walked away and found a Bruce Roberts 45 GRP that I am happy with.


If you are considering a steel boat I highly suggest that you get hold of the book [Metal Boat Maintenance - Scott Fratcher] and read through it (I did so in a weekend) It will give you a very good idea what to expect and what will be required on a 30 year old steel boat.

I was going hard for a Bruce Roberts in decent shape and still would consider them when it comes to steal I think they are pretty well put together but no expert as we know, did you find anything else about Bruce Roberts positive or negative? What about the Kurt Renkie builds, some amature build I know and steel batch or location produced is important. Some are beautiful boats and there seems to be lots of them in Australia, or more steel boats period there and I find cheaper over all especially when you convert au dollars, worse than Canadian lol, don't hate me to much for that I am actually a dual citizen with a passport.

[markcouz]

Bruce Roberts boats have a good reputation in RSA where sailing can be really tricky. We have frontal systems coming up from the roaring 40's every few days (Cape Town is at 38S) and moving up our coastline against the powerful Agulhas current - which combination can ruin your day!

As I was looking for steel the main contenders were BR45 and Lavranos 42 of which a few examples are available in our market. I quickly scratched out the Lavranos because the liveaboard space is vastly better in the BR.

Many of the BR in RSA where built in one of 2 yards to a high standard, often as hull/deck only finished by owner - some good some not so good (but hull good).

I finally settled on a BR45 which is solid fiberglass with no core, is is very strong and also very heavy (17T) - so not winning any races but that was never my plan.

[mako]

Originally Posted by hpeer

In my experience these are common spots for rust:
Chain locker
Lazarette
Under any sink
Around through hulls
Basically anyplace that is constantly exposed to wet, even very small quantities of wet.

Don’t forget under the clothes washer. That’s what did me in. Worst yet was that the unit was larger than the door opening. They actually built the boat around the washer! And this was from one of the country’s top builders of steel vessels. Crazy