Beneteau, Jeanneau, Bavaria, Elan, etc. mass production boats that circumnavigated

[sailorboy1]

it is all just Green Eggs and Ham

[Hoodsail]

Originally Posted by surf_km55

There's a Tartan guy on our dock who won't give me the time of day. <Sigh.> I bought my boat for the family and they love it. Forum opinions? Dock opinions? Meh.

the ying & yang of life....I will be sure and snob the Tartan folks here this season to keep the universe in balance!!

[ahun]

Not sure where to put this, but it's interesting:

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/spec...utm_content=ym

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by ahun

Not sure where to put this, but it's interesting:

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/spec...utm_content=ym

Hard to believe the keel bolts stayed in place after the ballast keel fell off.
Also hard to believe the yacht stayed upright, the thing would have been incredibly tender.
The damage to the hull would have been extensive, no water entering the boat?
Maybe the keel bolts corroded to the point when a hard knock just sheered them off?

[Yellowtulip]

Originally Posted by Icarus

Hard to believe the keel bolts stayed in place after the ballast keel fell off.

Also hard to believe the yacht stayed upright, the thing would have been incredibly tender.

The damage to the hull would have been extensive, no water entering the boat?

Maybe the keel bolts corroded to the point when a hard knock just sheered them off?

Look at the date of the Yachting Monthly issue.

[scandium]

Originally Posted by Greg K

To be fair, I did not say CE ratings mean " nothing" I said CE A ( open ocean) rating means "little" when boats receiving such a rating cannot withstand a collision to their keel at 5 knots without critical damage.

How often does this happen to ocean crossing sailboats? (as in on the ocean obviously, not next to land)

[Yellowtulip]

Originally Posted by scandium

How often does this happen to ocean crossing sailboats? (as in on the ocean obviously, not next to land)

I think he was using that to point out that the construction methods used in mass-production boats, though they conform to EU regulations, in his opinion aren’t really up to blue water sailing. Many people would agree with that, but many people are circumnavigating in them anyway.

[scandium]

Originally Posted by Yellowtulip

I think he was using that to point out that the construction methods used in mass-production boats, though they conform to EU regulations, in his opinion aren’t really up to blue water sailing. Many people would agree with that, but many people are circumnavigating in them anyway.

Yes, but why? There's no point building for something that rarely ever happens. So how often does this occur? I admit I haven't looked that hard, but I've never heard of it. And considering how many "weak" boats crossing oceans I would think we'd heard about it more if it's a valid issue? But I'm open to being convinced.

One can always say "build stronger!", but there has to be a reason, not just feeling good. There's always a cost; financial, weight, speed. Modern cars do not have roofs strong enough to withstand meteor strikes either, but nobody complains this is a problem so they should be built different.

[Yellowtulip]

Originally Posted by scandium

Yes, but why? There's no point building for something that rarely ever happens. So how often does this occur? I admit I haven't looked that hard, but I've never heard of it. And considering how many "weak" boats crossing oceans I would think we'd heard about it more if it's a valid issue? But I'm open to being convinced.

One can always say "build stronger!", but there has to be a reason, not just feeling good. There's always a cost; financial, weight, speed. Modern cars do not have roofs strong enough to withstand meteor strikes either, but nobody complains this is a problem so they should be built different.

Many people will disagree with your first point.

If you’re planning on or designing for a boat that will be sailed from marina-to-marina in benign weather for just a few weeks a year then your criteria and specifications will be very different to someone who’s heading off into the unknown and will almost certainly meet harsher conditions and will probably have a much higher risk of grounding as they will be venturing into unknown (to them) waters.

As to hearing about problems there are instances out there: Cheeky Raffiki being the most notorious. They may be rare, but if they happen to you the statistics won’t count for much.

I had a friend who owned a mass-production boat from a major manufacturer. He was allotted a berth in a well-known marina which advertises 2m minimum depth. His boat drew 1.9m but touched down in this particular berth at low tide. Note this was not a “grounding” just a settling on to the keel as the tide receded. The supporting structure inside the boat broke as it took the weight causing damage that cost several thousand pounds to repair.

This is hearsay, but I understand that the current yachts of a very well reputed yacht builder must not be supported on their keel alone. Neither of these boats are suitable for long-term voyaging where drying out may be necessary, and where you’re sailing in unfamiliar and less well charted waters, in my opinion.

Remember you only cross oceans to get to the other shore.

Meteor strikes are vanishingly rare compared to groundings, by the way.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Yellowtulip

Look at the date of the Yachting Monthly issue.

In this instance I think you will find its true. The boat is still for charter if you want to take her for a sail:

Cornish Cruising - Polbream Yacht Charter

Originally Posted by Yellowtulip

I think he was using that to point out that the construction methods used in mass-production boats, though they conform to EU regulations, in his opinion aren’t really up to blue water sailing. Many people would agree with that, but many people are circumnavigating in them anyway.

And on CF he is of course entitled to his opinion. The truth is that there are thousands of European fin keeled yachts merrily sailing offshore year in year out. Want an example? https://www.worldcruising.com/conten...Class_vFIN.pdf

Pete

[Jim Cate]

And on CF he is of course entitled to his opinion. The truth is that there are thousands of European fin keeled yachts merrily sailing offshore year in year out.

Of course this is true, Pete, but is it not also true that some/most of those builders recommend hauling for inspection after any grounding? I'm not sure, but that has been reported here on the source of all truth!

If so, this is a drawback to their use in long range/long term cruising, where groundings are not so rare (blush).

Jim

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Of course this is true, Pete, but is it not also true that some/most of those builders recommend hauling for inspection after any grounding? I'm not sure, but that has been reported here on the source of all truth!

If so, this is a drawback to their use in long range/long term cruising, where groundings are not so rare (blush).

Jim

Would the requirement for lifting a boat for inspection after grounding also be good advice for all vessel types unfortunate enough to ground more than just a tap? I am thinking power boats, encapsulated keels, unsinkable cats etc.

It is only a draw back if lifting for inspection is difficult, say large cat in FP were the lift isn't big enough. Thankfully mother nature has given us a helping hand, that even fins can use to their advantage?

Pete

[Pete7]

Of course there are some vessels that have rudders deeper than the keel so running aground then turns into a very expensive repair:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...lands-11605365