Beneteau or Bavaria Old boats

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Man, there's a lot of random Bavaria bashing going on in here. Nothing new for CF I guess

Beware of generalising from one model to another. I've only ever heard about smaller models, but then perhaps that's wrong too.

The Bavaria 46 and 49/50s I've seen from that era are built pretty tank-like. The inner liner of the cockpit locker on my boat is over half an inch, and the core we took from a thru-hull was over an inch and a half thick. The rudder tube is massive, and heavily reinforced. Every single piece of timber that touches the hull is thickly glassed in. All the Harken, Selden, and Rutgerson deck hardware is oversized and the butyl it's bedded in is still flexible 14 years on. The topsides shine and are extremely fair. Everything is very easy to access and view, and I keep coming across all sorts of clever access panels and design elements that make maintenance a breeze.

One of the most experienced marine surveyors in Auckland pronounced it one of the best built boats he'd ever inspected. "Vessel construction throughout is of a very good standard. Construction is structurally robust and well designed." He particularly noted that the glass layup showed very good technique.

Now, it's possible that the 49/50 models, being the flagships of the brand at that time, were built on a different line from other smaller budget models. The surveyor suggested that it was possible that their most experienced workers were training new employees while building these boats, being lower volume, and thus showing the correct techniques when laying them up. Or, since it was a large boat for Bavaria to build, they just wanted to make sure everything was comfortably strong enough. No idea.

The construction of this boat is certainly significantly better than the Westerly 41 we had built in the 1990s. That boat, although well designed, showed up that it was built by a few old men in a shed, not a proper production line with all the woodwork computer-cut and fitting perfectly.

By comparison, the similar sized and aged Beneteaus we looked at were much more tired. Fittings were tarnished, and the design inside was much more lightweight and not designed for offshore sailing -- far too many places where there was nothing to grab on to.

The only warning I'd give you for the larger Bavarias is that a great number went to charter -- there is a 5-cabin version of the 49 footer that is obviously a charter design, and the standard rig/engine/keel is very conservative (of course). If you get an owner's 3-cabin version with the optional taller rig, deep lead keel, and larger engine then you get a significantly better boat, and probably one treated a little better.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that you should check out and inspect each individual boat you are interested in, rather than applying generalisations from the internet. The one good thing resulting from the general hatred of Bavarias by the old-boat crowd is that they are extremely good value for money

We bought the Bavaria 49' as it fitted that time in our live, it was the 4 cabin owners version from 1999. We din't looked for this boat, but it was offered from the first owner, family, to us. It was a nice good boat, crossing the atlantic we never had the feeling that we were over-doing it, she always felt save. If you look for a nice 49 footer you should not limited yourself by excluding Bavaria, but look for the 3 or 4 cabin owner version as they where almost not used in the chartering bussines.

Good luck with your search.

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

That's an insult to Chevy. I've suspected Bavarias were a joint operation between Lada and Ikea.

I know this is simply hyperbole but while researching a new vehicle purchase just last month I discovered that Cadillac is among the worse built vehicles on the market. It has a cool badge and history on its side but as with boats things change rapidly and the old ways may not be the gold standard any more.

[Verschuijten]

Right now we are doing our circumnavigation with a Ben Oceanis 44 CC Clipper from 2000. Currently in the Caribbean. We were able to buy the boat in 2013 in the Netherlands just over 100k euro but had to invest another 80k to make her ready for the circumnavigation. Of course you don't have to invest so much but we see her as our home and safe place and renewed nearly everything and like to maintain her like new. If you wait until things break you're probably not in the position to do it in remote areas with additional costs. We feel very safe and comfortable on this boat. I am a tugboatcaptain doing ocean towing so know the circumstances what can occur.
After our circumnavigation we will sell her and go for a trawler. Sure she will be ready for another circumnavigation at that time due to our love and care for the boat.

[Herman DB]

I have a Beneteau Oceanis 44CC from 1998 which I owned since 2001 and that is in very good condition and full equipped for your plan. I have sailed it over the Biscaye and Mediterranean without troubles and it is currently for sale in Cascais, Portugal. If you are interested in more details, contact me on debackerherman@yahoo.com

[Bunnellr]

Originally Posted by MJH

By your own admittance you are new at this (sailing) as well as being a new father and not yet a husband...you are packing a lot of new lifetime experiences together, any one of which can be a trial. As someone who has 30-50+ years of experience in all of these areas I suggest you take it one step at a time starting with your fatherly responsibilities. During the limited free time that will be left over, learn more about sailing, bluewater cruising, and boat ownership (albeit related, they are different from one another, each with its own demons). Repost at a later date.

My congratulations and best wishes for your new family.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

dunno where you got the "don't want to believe" idea. The language used in the article was in the future tense, and we've been exposed to a lot of vaporware claims in the past.

The video does show it in use, and it is impressive. Charging in 5 or 9 minutes is very likely faster than transferring enough diesel to make the same run, and that's pretty cool.

Now all that is needed is for the technology to trickle down to the scale and price point that we need in small yachts. What could possibly go wrong?

Jim

Wow. Did this thread wander off track! It was about e,electric outboards

They are currently expensive. Fact. They have pros and cons. Fact. I own one.

NO gas on board. Can store out of elements and out of visibility. Charged via solar. Can put battery in backpack when ashore. Quiet. Easy to rig.

Expensive.

I am very happy.
Agree.

[Bunnellr]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

I concur. Before our Jeanneau 49DS we had a Jeanneau 36.2 Both are well built and last. I should know. A friend now owns the latter. Before that I had a Maxi 77 for some 18 years and it was on that Swedish boat that things such as the locker lids went soggy.

There is a negative strain of snobbism about mass market boats that sometimes pervades this forum. As a litmus test, which is usually more reliable: a mass produced car or a bit of exotica? Which manufacturer has the resources for research and the volume to make incremental improvements?

Do not concur. Charter boats are bad for first-owners. Crappy outfit, crappy upkeep, and lying brokers. Find a boat owned by family.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Bunnellr

Wow. Did this thread wander off track! It was about e,electric outboards

They are currently expensive. Fact. They have pros and cons. Fact. I own one.

NO gas on board. Can store out of elements and out of visibility. Charged via solar. Can put battery in backpack when ashore. Quiet. Easy to rig. Expensive.

I am very happy. Agree.

Hmmm. Don't know how an electric outboard discussion jumped over onto this thread - which has nothing to do with OBs.

[SteveSadler]

I think youre on the right track, buy an affordable, modern boat that doesn't need any work, ready to sail. Move aboard in the Med where cruising is easy, enjoy your new family. It will be very rewarding, if not the best time of your life! living is cheap, sailing is easy, everyone is friendly. That's what I did when my daughter was born.

[chuckr]

Take a hard look at a Jeanneau - we have 2000 launched 2003 DS40 and wow - great boat - solid great sailor and fairly fast - we have sailed all the Carib, across the Atlantic and all the way around the Black Sea and most of the Med - - Early Jeanneaus are great solid boats

[pufferfish]

Happy owner of a 2004 Beneteau Oceanis 423. Previous owner bought her ex charter on the British Virgin Islands and sailed her to Australia. So far I did only extended coastal cruising <200nm offshore, mainly along inner and outer Great Barrier Reef with her.

Handled well, even when we were caught out by the outskirts of cyclone Owen, wind instrument showing 65 knots sustained for a couple of hours before it broke (the tacktick wind instrument, not the boat - nothing else broke).

Happy to take her to Indonesia and PNG next year, and perhaps onwards to Japan. But then, 25 years ago we sailed our 9m Trimaran into the Arctic, when everybody told us it can't be done in such a boat. You can always go bigger, better, safer... but unable to afford it in the end. Or just buy what you can afford now and go sailing

[pufferfish]

PS: forgot yo mention that on our trip into the Arctic the crew was myself, my wife, our 8 week old daughter, and our 3 other kids then aged 3, 7, and 8. Have fun sailing with your little one!

[GBR134]

I have very limited experience so I’m just curious. On the one hand we read very authoritative claims that some production brands are so poorly built that they’re lucky to get off the dock. On the other hand we read of the growing problem of unwanted boats abandoned as not fit for rebuild because all the fixtures and systems would be too costly to replace despite the fact that the hulls are so solid that they will still be littering the planet for hundreds of years. The two views seem incompatible. Of the thousands of cruising boats built just how common is it for significant hull/structural failure to cause a real problem?

[chris taylor]

Hi Steve, interesting what you posted. I am an Aussie intending to go Europe to find a grand Soleil 43 j&j design. I thought at the end of the season would of been the time to search eg. Nov.,Dec. Any advice for me would be greatly appreciated but prefer no charter boat for the obvious reasons. Cheers Chris taylor

[Jim Cate]

[QUOTE]Of the thousands of cruising boats built just how common is it for significant hull/structural failure to cause a real problem?[/QUOTE

If you include cored decks that need extensive repair due to water intrusion, then it is pretty common in boats more than a decade or so in age. If you don't include that, total hull or keel failure is pretty rare except for severe groundings or being cast onto the rocks. Then most boats will be damaged enough to be write offs.

Jim

[SteveSadler]

Hi Chris
The Med is dormant for their winter so it's the best time to be looking for a boat. Charter or not, as summer approaches, more people are looking to buy for the coming season, so the earlier you start to negotiate the better for the buyer. I'm not sure what the obvious reasons are for not buying a charter boat other than they have been well trafficked and will need attention to cosmetics. They will also have a lot of engine hours, as mine does, but are professionally maintained so everything should work although electronics are outdated and missing AIS radar, sonar, etc, but is better to buy them new than inherit older ones. Same is true with private boats. 8 year old electronics may need replacement just to be compatible with new ones. But for bargains, charter boats are the best. They are way motivated to make room for their new boat and no time to deal with relics taking up expensive dock space.
While you could find the exact boat you are looking for, after seeing other boats you may find others that have the qualities you're looking for, for far less money.
Either way good luck!