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pianopraze · 15-04-2020, 14:41

I hear you, and though hard about it Brewgyver. If it comes with a good engine I will leave it. If engine needs serious overhaul or replace I will go electric.

I am aware of the problems/costs. But it is a life choice I really want. Something I'm excited playing with

Even if I don't install a electric engine I'm going to install a bigger solar/wind system. When I stop sailing I will be building a completely off-grid house in the Philippines with plenty of land to be self sufficient.

I'm disabled vet, so in no hurry to get anywhere. I'm happy to sail all except in and out of harbor.

You have hit on my absolute worst fear with electric and you are right it is a danger. But I have seen several boats that have done this. Sailing Uma (youtube blog) for example (also learning the lines). I've been researching and studying this for a long time now, not just those blogs, but studying the systems and how they work, how to install, etc etc etc... I have lots of hours to study. It's also why I'm looking at 30-34 foot boats for 5-15k. I know these engines can push them and can pay cash. I'm not so sure on a 37-44 foot that I was initially looking.

An old engine is also a risk in same situation. If a poor old motor gives out at the wrong time you're sunk also.

Already on the "to learn/practice" skills is sailing on/off anchor as much as possible. Maybe not a skill people do much now days but one I plan to practice and perfect the best I can.

Radar was never on my list, I'm sure your right on that. That would be a "nice to add later" option. When you've paid cash for everything and have no debt it's easy to add things latter paying cash with no stress. I've no debt except house and a little left on my Niro hybrid, money in the bank, and selling house and car before I go. So boat insurance and cell phone will be my only monthly bills once I set sail other than food, mooring etc.

Hoodsail · 15-04-2020, 18:53

Good luck in your boat hunt. I looked at late 1970’s-early1980’s tartan 33 and Sabre 34c as both were well built and drew 4 ft of water. There are quite a few of them here in New England so would recommend personally inspecting as many as you can in your area....As the more boats you see and inspect, the more familiar you will become with each model and develop a more critical eye. Both are well built. What varied considerably was the condition of each boat and the equipment. I owned a Catalina 27 but not a 30. If build is similar then as mentioned earlier the 30 is not the same quality as the tartan. Cant speak to the Morgan.

pianopraze · 15-04-2020, 23:03

Thank you Hoodsail. We intend to look at a ton of boats.

My wife is pestering me daily complaining we couldn't get to Florida so we can go look at a lot of boats. We plan on going this summer when the lockdowns are lifted.

Sabre 34's are beautiful but beyond the price range I'm looking at.

CarlF · 16-04-2020, 20:59

I really like the Tartan listing. Tartan - especially in those years - always stood a bit above the standard production boats like Pearson. Not quite a Hinckley or Shannon - but not far behind. Really comparable in build quality to Sabres (which I've owned)

When looking at a boat, a caring previous owner is worth a lot of money. This boat has all the signs of someone who loves their boat. Lots of recent upgrades - and some things that only someone who actually sails the boat would replace - like a new main halyard. It's also great they're just back from a Bahamas trip - a boat that's being used always has fewer surprises than one rotting in a slip. I would ask why they did all that work but are now selling a year later - there must be a good reason.

It's too bad the water tank is aluminum. Those always have a taste but a good sink filter should get it out.

Interesting that it has a composting head. It sounds like you and your wife will be fine with a composting head. They sure have advantages over the regular.

And as others have said, this isn't a swing keel. I love centerboard boats. Best of both worlds - shallow draft that actually sails well. Replace the pennant every 10 years and you'll be fine.

pianopraze · 16-04-2020, 21:23

So much wonderful information. Thank you all.

Seems near unanimous suggestions to get a Tartan 34c. I was leaning that way already. Had intended to look at that Tartan I posted above last week until this CV thing ruined everyones plans.

Surprised only one person suggested Morgan or Catalina could be good too.

Wife wants to buy boat tomorrow, I want to wait a year until we get her full US citizenship finished (just green card now which could making getting in and out of countries difficult.) So we can just set sail and not have to pay docking/yard storage fees.

CarlF · 17-04-2020, 06:53

My support of the 34c is not meant as a criticism of the Morgan or Catalina. You could do much, much worse than those boats

But for someone who wants an older boat of that size that sails well and is shoal draft the 34c is a bit of a legend. When I was a teenager I was friends with a girl who's dad had a 34c (bought new). Boy how he loved that boat. He kept it for 40 years until he was about 80.

I'd listen to your wife. You could store the boat on the hard for very little (even a slip if you look around - especially at an unused private house's dock). Prices are likely to get very cheap for dockage as the recession takes hold. And she's likely to need a year of work before you have it the way you and your wife want it before casting off. That's part of the fun. While CV makes purchasing harder, it's also good for price negotiations.

Of course, most boats look good in the ad.

Achernome · 20-04-2020, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by pianopraze

I keep falling in love with these three boats as I'm looking (and can afford to pay cash for them).

Love to hear other people's experiences, thoughts on them.

All things being equal (good condition, same price, etc) which would you choose and why?

Plans: sail Caribbean for a few years as live aboard.

I fell in love with the Tartan 34 in 1978 and I still think it is one of the finest small cruising boats ever made. Olin Stevens Design has her a little over-canvassed, especially the tall rig version and the boom on the the older (pre 1975?) versions was exra long and tended to give her a bit of weather helm. Both rectifiable with a reef and a sailmaker. She handles a lake Erie chop like a dream and is comfortable though somewhat dark inside. If you want to SAIL this is the boat for you, if you want to hang out at the dock get the Catalina. The Tartans were built to last and to sail.

Denny Vitton · 20-04-2020, 07:34

I have a 34cb 1976 Morgan. The center board can be a concern especially in saltwater. When my center board stainless cable broke I had it replaced with Dyneema line in Marathon Fl. That was over 10 years ago. Every time I haul my boat I check the center board cable and it as good as the day it was installed. Other Morgan 34 with stainless cable ever year or so.

pianopraze · 20-04-2020, 07:58

Thanks again CarlF.

Thanks for the info Denny Vitton. I will be salt water sailing so sounds like a good suggestion.

Achernome, yes, I want to sail and something that handles bigger seas sounds better to me.

Deserted beaches with no one else in sight is what I crave.

I'm another one of the PTSD vets who just wants to get away. After living on the beach in the country a few years in the Philippines I know this does more for my PTSD than anything except exercise (specifically swimming). And when I can get both at once all the better!

Docks/big cities are to be avoided as much as possible. I love farmers stalls with fresh local grown fruit and veggies. I will be retiring off-grid to the Philippine countryside with my wife after we are done sailing. Or take the boat over to the Philippines and explore SE asia too.

SailorPat · 20-04-2020, 08:03

I have been aboard many Catalina 30s in the Great Lakes. They have great volume down below in the cabin and a wide companionway hatch from the cockpit. Rig and hardware are adequate but might be tested by open water ocean sailing. If you intend to day sail between islands and avoid all potentially rough weather, the Catalina should do fine.

The Tartans are built to a different strength level and the quality of workmanship and hardware is higher. I think this should be a major decision factor given that eventually you will want to sell it. Tartans sail better, too.

The Morgan I cannot comment on from first hand knowledge. I have friends with Morgan 38 swing keel and Morgan 42. The 38 with a swing keel is not worth buying used and has recently been donated to charity just to be rid of it. The 42 was rebuilt below with newly glassed in stringers — a SOLID and safe boat that is raced successfully in both bout races and long distance races in the Great Lakes. Is the Morgan 33T more like one versus the other? I do not know.

davil · 20-04-2020, 08:15

I owned a Tartan 34c 1978 for several years, we cruised five years from Morro Bay CA south crossed Panama and returned to Florida, close to 5 years, late 90's and the happiest years of my life.
I thought was perfect for the two of us.
Seaworthiness? survived Hurricane Lenny
(https://www.google.com/search?q=hurr...hrome&ie=UTF-8
off Honduras, as well as 2 weeks drifting in the ITCZ with ferocious squalls, never experienced again.
Came with a Ferryman 2 V, replaced with a Yanmar 2 Cyl and proved to be underpowered.
Added a PUR35 power watermaker plus an extra water bladder under the cockpit, never a problem, the fuel small tank was a relative pain but carried extra jugs and given the misery fuel consumption was fine.
Added a Flemming windvane, a microwave oven, SSB.
The centerboard? did not use it much and fiberglass it in Isla Mujeres, peace of mind, mine had a set up like a gland that needed attention and was kind of difficult to tighten, etc, personal preferences.
Replaced the traveler original on the cockpit for a Harkens right before the dodger, like it a lot, also had a custom stainless huge bow anchor roller and base built to carry a heavy
CQR, bolt the electric windlass, also have Radar mounted on the transom via a pole,custom-designed, to it have a boom installed to lift the outboard.
Removed the folding table inside and rebuilt a smaller size for the two of us was fine and added some room.
I loved the midship engine installed for service and never had such a comfortable arrangement again.
I wish my current Westerbeke was the same!!!
Some of the production years had trouble with both decks to cabin/house delamination as well as delamination on hardware installation with water penetration and subsequent "soft decks" mine did.
When I returned to sailing 2 years ago was torn between getting a Tartan 34C again and eventually settled on my current Cape Dory MK II 1987, do I regret? not sure!!!
Some times

Tartan 34

NormanMartin · 20-04-2020, 08:45

Hello:

After having spent over ten years in the Caribbean my experience favors the T34c assuming similar price and condition. The single biggest issue is windward work, there can be a lot of it, and I believe the T34c has the best solution for that.

Your best piece of kit is going to be the dinghy. My friend, Mary, on a 33 footer carries a 9 ft rowing dink on her foredeck. Rowing is good exercise, she says. We have a rollup with outboard for our boat. It rolls up and stows in the quarterberth. Whatever boat you choose, you'll need to fit a dinghy aboard somehow.

Have fun with your plans. Hope I see you somewhere out there.

Norm
Cape Cod
PS... yachtworld has a Hughes 35 listing that makes my heart go pitta-pat. Basically, a deep keel version of the T34c. Check it out.

merrydolphin · 20-04-2020, 10:46

I owned two S & S designed fin keel boats, a Chris 26 and a Tartan 37 cb. They were both very sweet sailing boats. Especially the Tartan. As a Long time active cruiser and USSailing cruising instructor, I have sailed hundreds of cruising boats. The Tartan is one of my all time favorites. The 37 is a little different than the 34 but similar. The shoal draft is great for FL, Bahamas, Carolinas and Chesapeake waters. My 37 sailed very well with board up. Only time I would put it down would be racing up wind or clawing off a Lee shore. And yes, I think that build quality is better than the others, but with any older boat, Look close at decks and bulkheads. I also was part owner in a Charlie Morgan 34cb. While it had sweet lines, it did not balance or sail well with the board up. It was a full keel design.

pianopraze · 20-04-2020, 14:00

SailorPat, the room in the Catalinas is the thing that attracts me the most to them. And yes mostly intend to only sail on nice days, as I will never be on a schedule.

Don't know if I want to cross an ocean or not. But I do fall in love with things I own and don't want to give them up... so might be best if I buy a boat that can cross the pacific (Tartan). Otherwise I will have to sell and rebuy. It's the decision I'm struggling with the most as I've seen some Catalina's and Morgans going for 5k... All the Tartans are around 15k. Since I don't have hindsight I agonize over the decision. I know I'd love a Tartan but if I can get a very nice Cat or Morgan at 5k... this is my agony.

And my mind goes around and around: If I love it and want to do it forever 15K for a Tartan is definitely money well spent. If I just do day sailing for a year or two 5K makes more sense. And if I discover I love sailing and want a bigger boat the 5k makes more sense. But 15K on a Tartan now might not have to upgrade.... argh.. this is my brain going around and around and around. I'll stop as I've rambled enough. lol.

Thank you davil I also love the Cape Dorys. But they are so much more expensive. I saw Sam Holmes Sailing channel just bought one and it looks wonderful and he can't say enough positive about it! I fall in love with my things too and would be torn. I sold my Honda Civic when I moved to the Philippines for a few years ago and still miss it. I know it's not the same but I'm sure I would do the same with the Tartan 34c if I buy it.

NormanMartin thank you, I will keep that in mind. I've been thinking a lot about dingies but waiting until I get the boat and see what room I have before I decide what to do. I do want to get an electric engine (and read the thread showing pros and cons on them on this forum). As sailing Doodles's say it's basically your car for getting around.

The 1882 Hughes Special Edition? It's gorgeous. Love all that wood inside! Only things I can see that would put me off is it's draft is 5'10" and 20K is a little more than I want to spend on just the boat. Want to keep some money for adding Solar/wind/charger/batteries. But I agree, she is extremely beautiful!

Hope to see you around too. Trying to enjoy day by day but in so many I can't wait to buy a boat and get out there! Everything we are buying/doing is revolving around getting there. My wife is bugging me every day about how much she wants to get to Florida to look at boats!

merrydolphin thank you for the inf. If I had 30-60K to put on the boat... well I will once I sale my house but I'm going to invest that in land in the Philippines/keep it as rainy day fund... I would buy a tartan 37 and never look back.

It sounds like I can't go wrong with a Tartan 34C. Yes, thank you, I've heard there are problems with some Tartan decks and bulkheads and will pay for the full inspection when I buy so I'll know exactly where and what to fix. I've been watching a million videos on glassing and fixing hulls and decks. I know it's nothing like experience but we're all noobs before we start!

Another nice thing about a 5000$ boat is rebuilding the systems so you know your boat literally inside and out. My wife wants us to spend more and start with them already running well but most of me would prefer a project so I can really understand it before I start. But since sailing is boat repair in exotic locations I'm sure I'll get to know it all sooner or later up close and personal... lol. Calder's Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual 4/E book is already on my Amazon Kindle wish list and will be on my iPad when I buy a boat!

Again, thank you all for all the info and kind words!

NormanMartin · 20-04-2020, 16:00

Hey Pianopraze:
Nice to hear back from you. Don't lose the dream, Cruising life wonderful.
The "find a right boat" thread is full of good advice... and some questionable diversions. I follow a YouTube channel, Sailing Magic Carpet, with a story about buying and refitting. Worth a look.

One of the things I have learned from a lifetime of boat work and cruising is that the starting price has little to do with the final cost of the boat. Our 25K boat has over 50K in it and we could sail her anywhere. Not so when we started ownership. She is solid so that has been the big gift. You should consider that a cruising boat is about 50K one way or another.

A few years ago, a friend asked us (my wife, Elizabeth and me) to renovate a Yankee 30 which is similar to the T34c. We had so much fun doing the work. The story is that if you have a good place to work and some basic tools, it is not a challenge that is burdensome. Start with good bones.

I have two blogs. One is about the work I do as a professional boat guy. The Yankee 30 story starts in July 26, 2016 and goes forward a year or so. appliedsailing.blogspot.com You might find it interesting. The other is more about our house and boats, averisera.com Presently, I am doing some regular refit on the Aphrodite 101, Averisera.

Lessons learned. Buy a boat you like. Clean the boat aggressively. I mean, aggressively. Fix/replace the broken stuff. Things to buy new: all new hoses including the head, standing and running rigging, berth cushions, stove/cooker, sails (it's a sailboat, remember). Cockpit canvass is a custom project requiring professional help and worth every penny.

I am 70 going on 45. OK, my bones say going on 70. Done a couple of trans-Pacific trips and a dozen New England to the Caribbean. Flat bottom boats are terrible.

Look up the W. E. B. Crealock videos on YouTube for a good evaluation of offshore boats.