Tartan 34c vs Morgan 33T vs Catalina 30?

[pianopraze]

Yes, I'm interested but sadly I can't afford a Tartan T37 Captain Anthony. T37 was what got me into this (being serious about buying and sailing) as I absolutely fell in love. Almost all the 34c's are listed 10-15k, the 37's are 30K plus (some 60-120k!). I want to pay cash and willing to repair and upgrade as I go. If I love sailing live aboard it I can always upgrade to a bigger boat, if not, I'm not in debt. I hate being in debt.

DDabs I've heard horror stories about fin keels ripping off in sail on such boats as the Iroquois. Or expensive refits on the Southerlys (which would be my dream boat). And I think I heard a story about how the 34c fin keel if you bump bottom even lightly it rips the metal raising/lowering mechanism. That's why I'm asking those with real experience with the boat if there is really an issue or if it's nothing to worry about on the T34C.

I've boated all my life, but never sailed anything bigger than a 10-12 foot dingy or a kite board. 26 foot power boat is as big a boat as I've ever driven. I'm sure I would bump bottom a few times learning the ropes on a bigger sail boat. Another reason I'm wanting a boat for which I can pay cash, is lighter and easier to anchor out to get it off a grounding and if I sink it I'm not sunk.

The C variant Tortuga's Lie. Lots of them 10-15K right now. With a pilot berth.

And again thank you all for the input!

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by BBViper

Also, don't forget the draft issue in Florida and parts of Caribbean. Tartan is 3.5 vs the other two more than 5.

Actually, the Tartan's keel is an inch shy of 4 feet, and that only if the CB is 100% retracted (and that isn't always the case). Also, the OP didn't state which keel that particular C30 has (or any other particulars as about which variation). The wing keel version is actually about an inch shallower draft than the Tartan.

While on the subject of keels, the Tartan MAY point slightly better with the CB down, some have made that claim, but the Catalina points pretty well, anyway.

Pianopraze, you really should give us more to chew on. Year of each, which version of the Catalina (Standard Rig, Tall Rig with Bow Sprit, Standard or Shoal Draft or Wing Keel).

You should also consider what engine is installed. All of these originally had Atomic 4 gas engines, and there's certainly nothing wrong with having that engine (I love mine), but given their age, any of them might have been re-powered by a previous owner, and those particulars might tip the scales definitively.

While later Tartan's may have a higher standard of finish, the boats from the 70s that I've seen don't look any nicer inside than Catalinas or Morgans, and I know owners of Tartans that have the same leaks and other common maladies that my Catalina does.

Any one of these in good shape will serve well for the purpose.

Oh, one last thing: The location of the Tartan rudder post would drive me nuts!

[DDabs]

Originally Posted by pianopraze

DDabs I've heard horror stories about fin keels ripping off in sail on such boats as the Iroquois. Or expensive refits on the Southerlys (which would be my dream boat). And I think I heard a story about how the 34c fin keel if you bump bottom even lightly it rips the metal raising/lowering mechanism. That's why I'm asking those with real experience with the boat if there is really an issue or if it's nothing to worry about on the T34C.

The Tartan is not a bolt-on fin, rather more of a modified fin/centerboard that is encapsulated. It cannot rip off. I have read that the centerboard does not swing up in the event of a grounding, so yes it would be wise to make sure the board is up before entering shallow water; not a big deal. Now if you hit something submerged while sailing upwind with the board down, I suppose that is a concern but then again you can do serious damage to any boat in that situation, no matter what kind of keel.

[pianopraze]

Thank you for the correction Roverhi and others, yes, centerboard not drop keel.

DDabs I keep hearing on sailing blogs/youtubes about how bad the charts are/no charts etc in areas. It's those instances that worry me. I agree, when I know I'm going into shallow I can raise it, its those times when you don't know...

Brewgyver. I can't get to exact boats as I'm about a year out from purchasing but examples of the ones I'm looking at right now are the Tartan 34C. There are several 10-15k on sailboatlistings.com (and a few others I've seen on craigslist). The one in Titusville would be the first one I looked at in person if I had to buy today ( https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/81488 ). I lived in Titusville for several years, and when I buy a boat I'm going to move back to being a Floridian

The Morgan 33T that caught my eye is here: https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/53929 . Beautiful boat! 10k on one website less on another website.

There's a ton of Catalina 30's on the market from 5-15k right now such as this one: https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/67934 . They don't say anything other than Catalina 30 so I don't know how to be more specific. Forgive my ignorance ladies and gents. Would prefer one with smaller draft as I will start in Caribbean.

My wife is from Philippines, after a few years sailing we may go for a crossing over to there and sail SE Asia. But that's on the far future if I love the live aboard life. Will give it a few years first to see if we love it. And might upgrade to a bigger boat before that, although I've heard the T34C could be a possible ocean crosser. I might be a bit scared to attempt in that small of a boat those I've seen a couple do it on smaller. So another reason I love the 34C.


Editing to add: Missed that bit about the engine Brewgyver. I might put an electric engine in if something goes wrong with the one that's on it or if the one I buy comes with a broken engine. I'm definitely going to add solar and maybe a wind. Want to be as completely off grid as possible.

[DDabs]

Originally Posted by pianopraze

DDabs I keep hearing on sailing blogs/youtubes about how bad the charts are/no charts etc in areas. It's those instances that worry me. I agree, when I know I'm going into shallow I can raise it, its those times when you don't know...

Just FYI, Navionics charts for Florida/Bahamas/Caribbean are excellent. I have sailed literally blind using only these charts combined with radar through some very shallow areas. Explorer chartbooks for the Bahamas also provide another level of detail in a paper chart. Unless you're planning on sailing to remote parts of Central and South america, you should be more than find using Navionics charts in my opinion

[roverhi]

Shouldn't be an issue crossing oceans in a T34c with the proper precautions for bad weather. I've sailed 5 figure ocean miles in boats under 35' and still waiting to experience that bad weather, however. As long as you and your wife can get comfortable in the interior space, 35' plus or minus is all you need to go anywhere.

Catalina's are built to sail to Catalina and be a condo when not sailing. Not my idea of a recommendation for open ocean work. They are decent boats, just wouldn't consider them in the same ocean as a T34c. If I was looking for a Morgan would look for a 34. Like the Tartan it's a CCA design which are better sailing boats in the reaching conditions that are most frequently encountered off shore. They were well built before Charlie sold the company and quality went downhill. Don't know where the t comes as its not a traditional design as that is an IOR race boat design. In race boat trim the IOR boats are squirrely downwind but then a cruiser wouldn't be carrying a chute and pushing the limits in those conditions.

[pianopraze]

Ddab, thank you for the assurance. I've heard so much complaining in blogs/youtube.

Not sure I'm going to have a radar though. How expensive is that to add to a boat?

Definitely going to do just Bahamas/Caribbean for a few years.

If love it, after a few years we may cross Panama canal and sail to Hawaii, then on to Philippines and then SE Asia. But might just sale first boat and buy another over in SE Asia. Well I have one there now, but it's only a 12-15 foot Philippine style banka. Would buy a proper sail boat

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/c...6468a3~mv2.jpg

[Brewgyver]

First off, good luck and have fun with your search!
A few random tips:

When browsing sailboatlistings.com, always scroll down and check the date. That Morgan IS very pretty, but it was posted four and a half years ago, and may be long gone. I can't tell you how many times I've drooled over a listing on that site, only to find that it's been sold, sometimes years before.

For the Catalina 30s, look at the variations on sailboatdata.com. You can often spot details in a listing that the owner didn't mention. The one you linked to has no bow sprit, so it's most likely the Standard Rig, Fin Keel, but could be Tall Rig and Shoal Keeled.

Don't discount the details, they can make a huge difference. For example, the Morgan has wheel steering, but no self-tailing winches. That Catalina, with the tiller pilot and ST winches, would be easier to single-hand. The Tartan mentions a Beta Marine diesel, so it's been re-powered with a reputable engine, but mentions no fridge, etc.

[DDabs]

Originally Posted by pianopraze

Ddab, thank you for the assurance. I've heard so much complaining in blogs/youtube.

Not sure I'm going to have a radar though. How expensive is that to add to a boat?

Tough call... could try to put together a used system or buy new... anywhere from $500-5000 roughly lol

[KadeyKrogen38]

Tartans are a fixed keel boat with a centerboard. NOT A SWING KEEL!

[pianopraze]

roverhi, thank you for the assurance. This boat would be bigger than the house my wife grew up in Living in the Philippines for a few years in a house the size of some peoples living rooms was fine for me, because we had porch and ocean outside (was living on the beach). Think I would be equally happy on a sailboat. Not sure how to put into words how much living on/near the ocean helps my mental state. I'm sure a lot on this forum understand.

Brewgyver, thank you. If not for the CV my wife and I would have been in Florida looking at these boats in person last week! Darn pandemic ruining our plans... lol. I would be happy with a blank slate as our St. Pete friend mentioned because I want to install the systems myself so I know the boat inside and out. I'm decent with electronics repair/installation not as good with gas/diesel repair. But I've rebuilt motorcycle engines with a repair book so not exactly green there. Good sails, good hull and the rest is a bonus to me. Finding a solid boat with good sales sans engine for cheap would be bonus as I could put in electric. I'll keep all those points in mind though!

Ddabs, 500 definitely doable with self instal. Didn't realize that was option, thought those were orders of magnitude more expensive.

KadeyKrogan38 yes, I've afore mentioned my deficit in terminology in post above. Thank you for the correction. Centerboard. Got it. Rodger dodger.

Lol, forgive this lowly noob if I misspeak terminology.

[Tortuga's Lie]

Another consideration that is important for you is tankage, as you are thinking live-aboard. Most (if not all) of these boats in this size range will have very small water and fuel tanks. You will need to think of retrofitting a larger tank or come up with a watermaker location (or Rainman watermaker). Water catchment tarps are also doable, but not usually underway.
Having one of these boats is an exercise in puzzle solving!

[pianopraze]

Toruga's Lie, YES! I agree 100% and had already decided to do a water making system. That was my number one worry. I've decided no matter the boat I would re-build the water tank and add a water maker.

If I can put in an electric motor then I would re-build the gas/diesel tank to be a spare water tank. Keep one tank always full and use the other for the water maker so even if water maker breaks in passage I would have a full tank of water!

[Tortuga's Lie]

Good that you are thinking about the necessities of a liveaboard.

Also, many of the Tartan 34's came with a cork veneer on the floor. These have a tendency to get kind of nasty looking over the years, hopefully it will have already been replaced by now. The later models had teak veneer plywood.

[Brewgyver]

Radar:
Most boats in this size range have very tortuous paths to run cable up the mast. Most who add radar use a pole mount tied in to the stern rail. If you do want it to be on the mast, go with a wifi radar like Raymarine Quantum, that way you only have to get power to the scanner, much easier than the fat radar data cables. Radar is going to cost more than you think.

Nav insturments, winches and autopilots are items that should push boats up or down on your list. A "blank slate" boat can eat up the purchase price of the boat adding/replacing these items.

Electric motor: Doesn't even begin to make sense for the size and price range boat you're looking at here. A motor system with controller and a suitable battery bank will cost more than the boat, and you literally can't fit enough solar onto a 30-34 foot boat to recharge that battery bank in less than a week. There are boats this size with electric motors installed, but they're set up to get in and out of the harbor. Most have run time at full power measured in minutes rather than hours. And in the right combination of wind, current, sea state and proximity to rocks, reefs, etc., you can lose the boat, or worse.